E21
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[00:00:00] Andrew Hibel: Welcome to the HigherEdJobs podcast. I'm Andy Hibel, the Chief operating Officer of HigherEdJobs and one of its co-founders.

[00:00:08] Kelly Cherwin: And I'm Kelly Cherwin, the Director of Editorial Strategy.

[00:00:11] Andrew Hibel: and we have a different type of episode for you today. There is no guest, but Kelly and I are looking to look back on 2022 and reflect a little bit on what we see in 2023.

The team here at the HigherEdJobs Podcast asked us to put together some thoughts and offer them with you all. So Kelly, it's just us today.

[00:00:30] Kelly Cherwin: I hope people haven't tuned out by now. When you said there's no guests, I hope it's not like end and it is just us and it's going to be fun.

[00:00:42] Andrew Hibel: We tend to have a good bit of fun in doing these podcasts, and I think I'm gonna start the show with most importantly, we'd like to thank everybody for the thousands of downloads and the support that we've seen from our listeners in the HigherEdJobs community for the podcast this year. [00:01:00] We're extremely grateful and quite, quite absolutely stunned by the appreciation that folks have shown towards the podcast. And we really thank you and we hope to live up to those, those expectations and, and show you that same respect and appreciation that you've had for the podcast.

[00:01:17] Kelly Cherwin: I agree, it's really been exciting and I echo your sentiments in saying, we're very grateful that we've had all these listeners over the past year, and it's so exciting to get mail from people who have questions and feedback and input and compliments. It's definitely warming our hearts.

[00:01:34] Andrew Hibel: And I, I think we just received one the other day asking, and this happens quite frequently, hey, how can I contact this guest or that guest? And kind of just mentioning that, well, there, there is no guest here, so you're, you're gonna be stuck with us for a little bit, but maybe and, and we both kind of took this a little bit differently maybe to kind of talk about some of your favorite episodes of the years or possibly some of what you think are the best [00:02:00] episodes of 2022. Looking back on it.

[00:02:02] Kelly Cherwin: Well, I think you and I have talked a lot before about the, the word best and how you can define that.

And I really don't think that the number of downloads or how many people view an article equals the best. If it's a feeling that someone gets, if it's a message that was well received, if people come away with something that is successful and that's like the best to me. So I'm gonna take the approach that I didn't have a favorite.

I didn't have a best podcast because they were truly all my favorites. I really got something from every single episode, every single guest was a delight to talk to. I mean, there was, there was best practices. We talked about job search strategies. We talked about motivational stories. We had a lot of laughs in there.

We covered the gamut from emotional topics. You know, we talked about trends in, in like Colin Divers podcast on rankings. So that was a really, really interesting topic. But the topics from our job search [00:03:00] experts on how to manage a job search, how to take, like I said, the emotional side in job searches.

Those were super interesting to me as well, how strategically you could look at your career. We talked about how to successfully navigate interviews and resumes. All of those were so interesting to me, so that's why I, I can't pick my favorites because I really enjoyed all of the discussions we had.

[00:03:20] Andrew Hibel: I already feel the emails and the tweets coming at us for not choosing something so, I promise I'm gonna choose something, but I think actually you point out one of the things we've intentionally tried to do as Monika, Mike, you and I have tried to do as a team, that we realize working in higher education, there's a lot of people doing a lot of different things, and I kind of sometimes like to explain it as, yeah, we're all baseball fans here, but we all have our favorite teams and there are topics that we pick that are not all that popular with people.

I'd call that, in my opinion, the Yankees or the Astros. If you're looking at baseball teams and then we, we have other topics that you're pretty [00:04:00] much covering the entire National League and you have a whole bunch of people who are like, yeah, that topic really resonates with me. Now we promise we're gonna continue to look at some of those bigger topics, and occasionally we do have to talk about the Yankees and the Astros.

And even though a lot of us are tired of talking about the Yankees and the Astros, and we kind of have to cover that, one of the things that when I look back at the year, and, and I'll remind you, it's been about a year of us doing this, not quite a year of us doing this. That, Hey, we are actually new podcasters and as what we do and how we work with our guests and put together these episodes, we've tried to get better at it.

And, uh, I think we've been able to let our, our guests really be able to fully open up and really offer a lot to the audience. And I guess I'll promise the audience I'll continue to try to get better at doing that. It's hard work. But…

[00:04:55] Kelly Cherwin: Especially when you have ambulances and garbage trucks outside, which are, [00:05:00] dogs…

[00:05:00] Andrew Hibel: Yes. Dogs and high school kids. Yeah. Right outside our studios there is a little outside seating area and thankfully this time of year most people avoid it. But during the summer in particular, and there's a Starbucks on the other side of the seating area, people like to sit out there with lots of pet.

[00:05:16] Kelly Cherwin: But, and I, I want just to interrupt you for a second. I wanted to mention, you're talking about your analogy of, you know, Astros and Yankees and yeah, we will be talking about that. But I also wanna encourage people, if you want to hear us talk about the Brewers, if you want us to hear, talk about White Sox, meaning other topics, please let us know.

We are here to talk about what you want to hear about.

[00:05:35] Andrew Hibel: Yeah, and that's actually where I wanted to start with. I really think some of our best episodes have been the episodes initiated by you all. The folks who send us questions and we answer and in the ask the expert episodes, I think we have some of the best discussions and some of the most practical advice on either working in higher education or furthering your career or the tactics of [00:06:00] looking for a job in your questions. So if there's not a topic, but there's a question, I guess I'll do the plug. Please email us at podcast@higheredjobs.com or tweet us at higheredjobs. Maybe I'll stick Mike's cell phone number in there. You can text Mike. (Mike: That's smooth.) Yeah, but please let us know cause I think that that really, that's real for us and that's a way that we feel like we can serve you better.

When I look at some of the earlier episodes in the year, I really looked at Shai's episode, I'm withdrawing your candidacy as being really, really interesting. Justin's episode on do you think it's groupthink? Actually, we just recalled that episode in an an episode we just taped regarding ask the expert because groupthink is real.

As I go more through the middle of the year, we did a two-part episode with Martin Atkins talking about rockstar turning into being a professor. I really felt like that was a really deep dive into a very big specialty area, and I [00:07:00] felt like that offered a lot to folks, to me, even to Mike. Uh, yeah. Now I never thought that the podcast would take us to the Museum of Post-Punk and Industrial Music, but it did.

I think the idea of the status of DEEI in higher education was another great episode as you look towards the end of the year. And finally, we've recently released both the Colin Diver one that you referenced, and then I have to tell you, spending some time with our friends over from Clemson on the dos and dots of resume writing. I can tell you I learned a ton. And for me the debate of, I'm gonna tease the episode just a little bit, if you haven't listened to it, the debate of whether or not you should include a cover letter or not. I believe that episode holds the definitive answer on that question. So, I really, really enjoyed doing that and thought that that was a tremendous episode.

[00:07:53] Kelly Cherwin: Andy I like the fact that you said that we actually, today we recorded a ask the expert. And you're right, a lot of the topics that we covered over the year. [00:08:00] We brought back in our Ask the Expert series today, we talked about interviewing and and bringing transferrable skills, and those were mentioned throughout different podcasts.

And I agree with you when you said that some of our most practical, I guess you can say is because I think in a way we all can relate in some way. We've gone through similar challenges as a lot of our listeners have and the questions that they've posed. So it's easy for us to relate. And the conversations have, have really, I think, flowed really well.

And hopefully, like you said, they've helped people because yeah, they've definitely helped me, you know, navigate some of these situations and these, you know, answering these questions.

[00:08:37] Andrew Hibel: I have to admit, Kelly, I'd feel really horrible if we didn't mention the playlist episodes. To remind folks who might not know HigherEdJobs podcast has a Spotify playlist.

You can find us on Spotify. And we kind of started it with the idea that every job search deserves a soundtrack. And that kind of is a little bit on the glip side, but [00:09:00] I think seriously when, when people are trying to go through a job search, music does a lot to kind of keep your job search going. And we had some really, really fun playlist episodes.

Now I will tell you, if you're listening to a playlist episode, please do not expect us to be coming up to our normal questions you'd find in a regular episode, but they're fun and they also are pretty revealing about how music has played a role in many people's lives, in what they do, how they do it in related to a job search.

And I hope in 2023 to tease a little bit that I'll get to have a chance to add another song. This year I was very proud to add the Waiting by Tom Petty, which I thought was one of my favorite songs that encapsulates the feeling of job search. But I hope I can add another song this year. I, I hope, only one.

[00:09:50] Kelly Cherwin: I guess we'll allow you to do that, I have to kinda revive myself and come up with another song to add as well.

[00:09:57] Andrew Hibel: And I, I really, really [00:10:00] feel like Jeff Dickey Chasen's episode on the on the Great Resignation was fantastic, but his two additions to the playlist, which is Elvis Costello's Welcome to the Working Week and the Clash's Career Opportunities.

Wow. Jeff, as I've always known about you, you're amazing at what you do, but your musical taste might even be better than that.

[00:10:21] Andrew Hibel: Do you wanna take a quick pause here? Insert ambulance.

[00:10:28] Kelly Cherwin: Ad: Looking for more conversations in higher ed? We invite you to join the higher ed military community as we discuss issues, best practices from campuses, policies, news and general trends affecting our institutions and the higher ed military affiliated community. Inspired by the deep commitment to service that veterans and military connected faculty, staff, and leaders have towards the academic community.

We at HigherEdJobs established higher ed military as the resource for both original and curated news and information, as well as job opportunities from colleges and universities actively recruiting military connected professionals. Find [00:11:00] resources, thought pieces, tools, and other information you need to improve your institution's ability to support this amazing community. Visit us at HigherEdMilitary.com on Facebook and LinkedIn.

[00:11:10] Andrew Hibel: Well, Kelly, I hope folks, when they're spending some time over break, if they're interested in listening to some of those older episodes. There's a lot of good stuff in there. I think one of the questions that we were asked to cover was what major changes did we see working in higher education this year. Any thoughts you have on that?

[00:11:29] Kelly Cherwin: Yeah, I reflected on this question. I, I looked back at the conferences that I attended over the past year and the theme that came out of a lot of the conferences was regarding how employment is the, the structure is changing, and how universities need to be more willing to be flexible in terms of how they look at it and, and is it, is it going to be remote?

Is it going to be a mix? How are they going to recruit talent based on this? So at a conference, there was a session on how people in higher ed are leaving higher ed to go to the corporate sector. And [00:12:00] how that's a challenge. You know, we, we have to, in higher ed, reevaluate how we're going to recruit and retain talented workforce.

So that's one change that I, or challenge, I guess you could say as well in higher ed, what are you thinking? And when it comes to that question, if I'm forced to give like a 30 second response?

[00:12:15] Andrew Hibel: I think you have to begin and end with, we now have a president who's made an executive action about student loan forgiveness and the one universal takeaway that everybody felt was higher education was too expensive. If there's one thing our country can agree on, it's that, and I think that that needs to be, if it wasn't a wakeup call 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago to academia, this needs to be a wakeup call to academia in general. If you look at that, there's so many different directions you can go with it.

But if an executive action by the president of the United States brings that sort of universal sentiment, regardless of where you stand on the political spectrum about the expenses of colleges and [00:13:00] universities, I think we really need to realize that it's real. If you didn't realize before now, which I hope you would've, you better realize now if I'm given more than the quick response.

I kind of actually in a little bit of personal sharing. Being a parent of a college student right now whose freshman year was the 20, 21 year, sophomore year was the 21, 22 year, and now is in her junior year in the 22, 23 year, having done HigherEdJobs for nearly 30 years now, but now experiencing it, experience academia in a way that I never had before, and seeing it through my daughter's eyes.

The difference between this year and her freshman year is really day and night this year resembles very much what a normal college experience would look like for students. Last year, the sophomore year, the 21, 22 year was very much more of a bridge between these two years. And I think as [00:14:00] we look as a community coming out of the 2021 year with really heavy Covid restrictions and now we look at how the world has changed some of the stuff you were referencing earlier.

I think I really come back to that same issue you have, which is we need to understand what we did now and we can rewind it back here in the 2019, 2020 school year is very, very different than I think what you're gonna see coming in the 23, 24 school year. There's no longer a gap year. There's no longer the the real big Covid restrictions.

But this not only is Covid still with us in some ways, but the effects of Covid on the workplace are absolutely with us, and we can either realize that they're absolutely with us and try to be intelligent about it, or the world's gonna be a little bit harder for us. Flipping back to somebody who is working at a college or university.

I think understanding what [00:15:00] it is in this world that you really want and figuring that into your career sketch, I think you have some real actionable information now to start making those choices as opposed to reacting to whether it's the hard lockdown year or that transitional year. You have real information that's out there to think about your career and move forward with it, and I think that that's a big difference you're gonna have working at a college and university and seeing people's decisions.

They're not gonna be reactionary, they're going to be much more thoughtful.

[00:15:31] Kelly Cherwin: I agree. And in terms of working in the teaching perspective, you know, you said that the college experience this year is definitely more similar to what it was pre covid, but I think we can both agree that the way people are teaching and learning is different now.

And we'll always from this point on, I don't think it's ever gonna go back to where people are like online learning. So I'm, I'm actually excited about how that has changed us in a, in a positive way and how people can be more [00:16:00] willing to, to embrace the more flexible type of, of online learning and looking at in a different way.

[00:16:06] Andrew Hibel: I think where you're going with that is exactly it, I feel, particularly when, when the ground is unsettled, reacting to the ground in a reactionary way is never the time to make the decisions or make a judgment or start doing things based on that. And now that there is the time there that if the employer isn't right, if the situation is not right, if your career path that you've chosen isn't the right career path for you, this is a year where you really can start thinking about what is it that you want to do in those areas?

What is it that you're seeking more as opposed to as many folks were thrown into, hey I have kids at home. I can't physically go into something. I need to have a more hybrid situation or completely remote situation, and I just need to do it now. I don't really have a choice, even though I may like the job, I may like the institution, I [00:17:00] may like my supervisor.

I don't think you have to make those hard choices quite so much, right now. Actually, that

[00:17:06] Kelly Cherwin: Actually, that reminds me of our conversation with Hallie, how she was saying to kinda take a step back and reevaluate where you're at and like you said, maybe think about change.

[00:17:15] Andrew Hibel: It's that famous little saying of measure twice cut once.

The opportunity to do that is here now. Yes. So as we look towards 2023, we're supposed to offer some thoughts. First of all, most importantly is this, the White Sox year? But beyond that, What do you think?

[00:17:32] Kelly Cherwin: Well, I must say I was really inspired, oh, let's back up. I hope it's the White Sox here. I will, I will definitely start with that.

Thank you. Absolutely. Um, my, uh, green Bay Packers have not been doing well, so I have to go to a different sport, I guess, but, after being at the ASHE Conference, I was reminded of how many brilliant people are working in higher ed, researching our students, and I look forward to tapping into their [00:18:00] knowledge, you know, gaining information from them, having future podcasts, talking about these, these conversations, continuing all these type of topics that we've touched on before. I'm hoping there's a sense of energy that comes into 23 that people can be hopeful about higher education. I know we've been through a lot in the past couple years, so…

[00:18:18] Andrew Hibel: I think what the community that works in higher ed has to look forward to in 2023 is I think folks who are working in higher education, students who are attending higher education, come in at a place where they really, really care about what they're doing.

It's a special place to be. Obviously there's some challenges and kind of just acknowledge some of those, but when you look at the day-to-day of your work as somebody who works at a college or university. I think you're gonna see a lot of opportunities to serve and make a difference in the lives of the folks who are served as students in supporting the, the research and the further in some knowledge that the faculty might be participating in, and the [00:19:00] vibrancy of an amazing college community that an institution brings to a college town.

All those things are there. It's a special place I think you can see, particularly with this past school year the world is back to pretty darn close to normal at a college or university, and I think that that's cool to look at. I'm thinking back about some of the episodes. I'm thinking about the episode about how the interim role has changed in higher education.

And of course the man, Jim Martin, who brought that to us, the man who looks great in a bow tie and makes a bows tie really pop. I thought about that conversation with Jim quite a bit. The interim role and the commitment that institutions have to having quality people serve so there's not an empty chair as they serve the various constituencies that we serve.

That's important to colleges and universities. It's not just a, oh, this chair is empty, so we can look at a budget savings that drops down to our quarterly profits report. No, [00:20:00] we wanna make sure there's somebody in that chair so there's no drop off. And not seen as a benefit of having an empty chair. We need somebody in that chair that is a special place to work.

And I think the ability to have higher education stand out in that way, I think is going to be a further differentiator for people who work in the space.

[00:20:20] Kelly Cherwin: That's perfectly said. And how you say that working in higher ed is a special place. That's, that's exactly right. There's something about being on campus, being able to make a difference, like you said, in whatever role.

If it's being in the maintenance department, being a faculty member, I can, you know, speak from experience. There's just, there's a certain joy that I get from being able to touch my students' lives and make a difference in their lives. So I feel very thankful that I get to do.

[00:20:50] Andrew Hibel: It's one of the most unique words to academia, although you, you see some spillover nowadays, but the ombudsperson, when you have an ombudsperson who's [00:21:00] there to help promote collaboration, mutual commitment to problem solving, that's a role that a lot of universities that, that people are, were very good.

I love talking to ombudspeople. Maybe we should do a podcast in 23 with a (Yes) With a Ombudsperson. You don't find that other places, you don't find that. Commitment to that sort of detail to make a community better. And yeah, I obviously, I, I started off on a college campus. I went straight from college campuses to working on a college campus.

This has been my life. I'm, I'm, I, I don't know anything else. And yeah, I'm biased I guess, but objectively when I try to look at it, I really don't think there's a case that can be made quite like the case that academia has. So when I look at 2023, I hope people have a better opportunity to start doing those sorts of things even more so than they've had over the past few years.

Kelly Cherwin: Bring on 2023.

Andrew Hibel: There was one [00:22:00] question they didn't ask. Now you're looking at me like you're frightened that I thought that maybe it might be worth us asking. It's kind of unique. We're here flipping the calendar year, but we're only midway through the academic. But from a job search perspective, we're really, really tied into how the ebb and the flow of a year goes.

Usually, if you look at the jobs in HigherEdJobs, they go from 60% faculty and 40% staff, and then at certain point in the year they flip where it's 60 40, the other direction. First quarter of the year is the time of the year where you find 60% positions on higher education or faculty. And that's because faculty hiring really starts in earnest when the calendar year begins.

When I look at the year, we are starting a new year, obviously faculty hiring season starts. I do think it's also a good place where you start looking at your days and we're based here in Chicago. It's cold already. The days are [00:23:00] extremely short, and we have here in Chicago, January, staring at us. There's an ebb and flow to the energy level and your enthusiasm and maybe just trying to have the highs and the lows of the year, and I was thinking about what always works for me?

What, when am I at my best and what am I channeling kind of from a little bit of a mindfulness perspective? And I was wondering, what do you try to do as far as looking at that year and trying to even out the highs and the lows and the ebbs and flows of a year, particularly this time of year.

[00:23:32] Kelly Cherwin: I think I have a couple different answers to that. As you said, there's different ebbs and flows throughout the year, and actually I'm gonna channel my 17 year old. He told me something the other day that his French teacher actually reminded him that there's always good to find in any situation, it might be the most difficult situation. It might be negative, but there is some good.

And if you can find that, if you can channel that, if it's you're having a bad day at work, [00:24:00] you got maybe a rejection letter, you got cut off driving to work, but, but if you can find some glimmer of positivity or hope in any situation, I think that changes your mindset for the day and that kind of leans into my next part of having the ability to be kind.

Cause if you're, if you're in that mental mind space of, you know what, it's okay, I'm gonna flip this and something good is coming out of it. Your heart is more open to being kind. And I know it sounds so simple. There's t-shirts out there and there's bumper stickers and everything. Just, you know, spread kindness, show kindness, but people really need to act on that.

It's not that difficult, but sometimes we get so wound up in what we're thinking and what we want and why it didn't happen this way, that we forget to be kind. So, I guess that's my little public service announcement that I want to hopefully spread kindness and encourage other people to spread kindness as well.

[00:24:56] Andrew Hibel: So spread kindness like wildflowers is [00:25:00] probably your advice. Yes. I'm sure somebody has a copyright or something. I'm pretty sure nobody's trademarked to spread kindness like wildflowers. I think for me it's really along those same lines. I think the power of gratitude and having a gratitude focused mentality really helps.

It helps understand that there's always an opportunity to be thankful for whatever situation you find yourself in. Obviously there's, there's some situations that are tough. You can say, oh, how can you find gratitude in that situation? You might not be able to find gratitude in that situation, but you probably find gratitude about if, if you find yourself sick.

I think it's easy to say, well, how can I be grateful about being sick? Well be grateful for all the displays of love and people who care about you. Be grateful for the fact that you have great doctors who are treating you. I think when you start putting those things forward, it's easier to do things like be kind.

And it's also easier to feel better about [00:26:00] how the day approaches when you see people as being generally kind and wanting to be kind. Cause I think most people do want to be kind. It's a easier place to be grateful for the kindness that's displayed towards you. So I've always kind of found that to be a day when I'm able to be in touch with my gratitude is usually a day that’s both more enjoyable and a little bit of a day that the, the highs and the lows of the day really are pretty evened out in a way that makes the day pretty darn good. So that's probably where I would go with it. So I guess make 2023, the year of kindness and gratitude.

[00:26:40] Kelly Cherwin: I love that. Andy. Mike, what's yours? I'm gonna put you on the spot.

Mike Walker: What, what were we talking about?
[00:26:47] Andrew Hibel: I think Mike might believe 2023 is the year of sarcasm.

Mike Walker: Maybe, but that was 22 and 21. Not so much [00:27:00] 2020 that was just sleep.

Andrew Hibel: And on that note,

[00:27:04] Kelly Cherwin: as we close out this last podcast of the year, I just want to again, express our gratitude to all of our listeners and say we look forward to our future podcast in 2023.

And if you'd like to connect with us, please email us at podcast@higheredjobs.com and connect with us on Twitter at HigherEdJobs. We'd love to hear from you and we'd love to hear what you are grateful for and what you look forward to in 2023. Take care everyone.

[00:27:29] Andrew Hibel: Thanks a lot.

[00:27:52] Kelly Cherwin: Bring on 2023.