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[00:00:00] Andrew Hibel: Welcome to the HigherEdJobs podcast. I'm Andy Hibel, the chief operating officer of HigherEdJobs and one of its co-founders.

[00:00:11] Kelly Cherwin: And I'm Kelly Cherwin, the director of editorial strategy. Today, we are joined by Suzanne Teer who's the senior partner with WittKieffer based in the San Francisco area. Wit Keefer is a global executive search firm dedicated, exclusively to organizations that improve quality of life and healthcare education, life sciences, and the non-for-profit.

We are so excited to talk to Suzanne today about how job seekers can best engage with search consultants and strategies and how candidates can best position themselves for success. Thank you Suzanne so much for being here today.

[00:00:42] Suzanne Teer: Thanks Kelly. I'm delighted to be here.

[00:00:45] Kelly Cherwin: So, before we dive into the, the topics, can you tell us a little bit more about your background?

[00:00:48] Suzanne Teer: Sure. And thanks for asking. I spent 27 years as a fundraiser in higher education before I joined WittKieffer in 2016. [00:01:00] So I had a transformative experience in college and decided that I wanted to stay in higher education and be on college campuses for my career and had the great pleasure of joining the advancement team at my alma mater in Virginia.

And after about 27 years decided I wanted to make a change and, and had a great opportunity to join WittKiefer.

[00:01:22] Kelly Cherwin: That's great. Well, sounds like obviously you have a little bit of experience in academia, so that lends itself well to being an executive search consultant. So that's where I'm leading into my next question.

It's surrounding an article that you recently wrote, but I wanna back up for those people who aren't familiar with, what an executive search consultant is, or have, you know, maybe have never worked with someone. Can you explain what your role is in this process?

[00:01:43] Suzanne Teer: Sure. We have a, um, a few roles that we play in the search process as, as a search consultant.

Um, we're, we're a partner, both to our clients and to our candidates, as partners to our clients, we help facilitate and [00:02:00] drive the search process. We bring expertise and insight and teamwork to the search to really compliment our clients in. Capacity. We also proactively recruit strong and diverse pools of candidates for our clients.

And this is really the role that we're best known for is as recruiters. We're also partners to our candidates. So we are working to understand their goals, their experience, and their skills. And we communicate the unique needs of our clients to our candidates, with the hope that we'll find an exceptional match between the client's needs and, and the candidate's aspirations.

Um, so I would say in a nutshell, we're facilitators, we're advisors, we're communicators and, and we're connectors.

[00:02:46] Andrew Hibel: As Kelly mentioned before, we're always interested in providing our listeners with some of the best practices that they can employ. I'm assuming it's safe to say that preparation and working with a search consultant is critical to the process.

[00:03:00] What advice do you have for candidates regarding how can they put themselves in the best position to get started, or even if knowing whether or not they're ready to work with a search consultant?

[00:03:07] Suzanne Teer: It's a great question, Andy. First, I, I would really encourage candidates to think about what their goals are.

What's motivating them to advance in their leadership. What are their strengths? What are their interests in their real passions about the work that they do, knowing themselves really well and what's driving them to advance in their careers is really gonna provide guideposts for their leadership exploration.

So my first piece of advice would be do some soul searching, get clear on what they want and why. That's gonna be really important. You know, I work with a lot of candidates who are deeply committed to public education, to access and inclusion, and they would only work at campuses where those values are really at the forefront.

So, you know, really understanding where they're coming from and what's important to them, I think is really the first step. [00:04:00] Second as a follow up on that, I would really encourage candidates to think about their leadership narrative. They're gonna be telling their story, whether through writing or, uh, verbally in their interviews.

So, what is the narrative that they wanna tell about themselves as a leader? What do they value? What do they accomplish that they're proud of? How are they gonna tell their story? Both in writing and verbally, and this takes some work. It takes some thinking and some soul searching and some real practice to kind of get the story clear.

Many candidates don't see themselves objectively. And they really benefit from an outsider like a search consultant to bounce things off. And sometimes I can say, wait, here's what I'm seeing in your experience and I can help them shape that narrative. And many candidates really underestimate themselves and they sell themselves short.

So having some outsider perspective, whether it's from a search consultant or a trusted advisor [00:05:00] can be really helpful in their journey. To that point about underselling. I, I think it's also important that candidates be really honest with themselves about their experience. Take a really thoughtful look at their accomplishments at their track record and how it measures up against what's really needed to move to the next level.

So if a candidate has been a dean for several years and is seeking to become a provost for the first time, how are they likely to stack up against others who are going after a similar role? Where do they have strengths? Where might they have some gaps in their experience? And then being prepared to address those gaps, whether there's additional experience that they might need to get on their own campus, or even just how they're gonna talk about those gaps and how they might fill those gaps in a future role.

You know, for example, we see a lot of candidates who don't have a lot of experience with fundraising, but that's gonna be required of the position that they're [00:06:00] aspiring to. So how are they gonna gain that experience? How are they gonna learn? How can they bring maybe transferable skills to the table around fundraising?

They need to think about their experience very carefully and, and identify where they are strong and where they might have gaps. So they're prepared once they get into the marketplace. And then finally, I would say they just need to go for it. I mean, at some point you just have to take the leap. You have to start exploring opportunities.

And as soon as they get into the market and to begin to go for certain roles and begin to meet with search committees and, and start to get evaluated, they're gonna get some pretty clear feedback from the marketplace. And then I would advise them to really listen to that feedback, to take it to heart. And to, um, use that feedback to continue to shape their, their exploration in, in their journey, in looking for new roles, a lot of candidates that I talk with need that extra encouragement to [00:07:00] say, you're ready.

You can be competitive and we’ll help you along the way. I particularly find this with women. I had a, uh, candidate that I worked with who was excited about a leadership role. Wasn't really sure that she was ready. And, and I, I encouraged her and after she got the job, she came back to me and said, you know, you really helped me see myself in that role.

And, and I appreciate that. So those are some of the things that I, that I would share with candidates.

[00:07:29] Andrew Hibel: That's such a wonderfully comprehensive way to look at. And such great advice, even for not working with a search consultant, obviously there's places where the search consultant really adds a lot of value to the candidate.

As we know, not every position is one that a search consultant is doing. How would your advice differ? Would it differ, I guess is the first part and how would it differ if this is not a, a executive search firm running the search? and in those instances, some of [00:08:00] that feedback that a search consultant would typically give, if you're a candidate looking for a job and you're really not getting the, the privilege of working with a consultant, what would you suggest they look for in people within their circle can serve some of those similar roles?

[00:08:16] Suzanne Teer: You're right. Not everybody has the opportunity to work with the search consultant. So you can kind of feel like you're flailing out there a little bit. Most of the candidates that I work with in higher education have colleagues, mentors, trusted advisors they can go to within their networks where they're able to get feedback, to get advice in council.

So being willing to kind of put yourself out there. To let some of your colleagues let your mentors know what you're thinking, what you're hoping for, what your aspirations are in terms of leadership can be really, really valuable. I remember when I got to, Wit [00:09:00] Keifer, I was having a conversation with a, a trusted friend and colleague and you know, was ready to make a change.

And, and that conversation led to me being here today. So, you know, being willing to put yourself out there and be vulnerable and share what your aspirations are and then to ask them for their advice, many people at higher levels, in an organization who have made that leap before you are more than willing and, and excited about helping their colleagues to kind of work up through the ranks and, and take their next leadership move.

So everything from getting input on your materials, uh, your CVS and your letters of interest, everything from brainstorming, do you think this might be the right role for me? Um, the right step for me, the right type of institution, practicing interviewing techniques. People are willing to help. And so I would, would definitely encourage candidates to start to think about who they could [00:10:00] bring into the fold as part of their, their board of advisors as you will, and then call on them.

And I think they'll find they'll, they'll get lots of, lots of support and help along the way. People have taken this path before them. So use their, their wisdom and their experience. And there's of course, there's a lot of materials that are out there the WittKiefferwebsite has a ton of resources for candidates that can really help them, you know, through any stage of the search process.

Even if they're not working with us on a search, they certainly have access to a lot of the materials that we've developed over time to help support our candidates through the process.

[00:10:36] Kelly Cherwin: I love that there's so many different resources and you've provided so many great examples of reaching out to your network and using people.

And I do agree that people want to help. And you, you shared that great story about the person that you're working with, who you gave them confidence to apply and try to reach that next goal. Have you had any experiences moving to the job seeker perspective where someone you said, you know, they have to be willing to, to accept feedback and, and [00:11:00] kind of evaluate where they're at.

Do you have any advice for someone who maybe is not willing to take that feedback or is not, you know, not open to take the constructive criticism? Have you encountered people in the past that they just, they think they're doing everything right?

[00:11:12] Suzanne Teer: Yes. I've certainly encountered those. They're they're gonna, they're gonna have a harder time.

First of all, today's leaders in higher education are expected to be people who are open, who are humble, who are willing to take feedback and to listen to others and consult. So our search committees are pretty darn talented when it comes to getting a sense of a candidate and whether they bring the right level of, of humility and openness and willing to learn and willing to continue to develop themselves as leaders.

So there, those, those individuals will have a hard time. And they're closing themselves off of a great opportunity to learn and to [00:12:00] grow and to improve so that they can be successful.

[00:12:03] Kelly Cherwin: Thank you. I, I think you're saying that people need to recognize that they should be open minded and put their best foot forward and, and understand that they have to accept feedback.

[00:12:10] Suzanne Teer: Absolutely. And I have noticed just in the six years, since I've been doing this work, how much more important that has become to organizations. That willingness to be humble to say, I don't know everything. I need to surround myself by a really strong team. I need to continue to learn and to grow as a leader, that has become a very important quality that people are looking for in their leaders.

[00:12:40] Kelly Cherwin: Well, that actually leads me into my next question. You said that you've been working with Wike for, for six years now, and obviously you've had, uh, years of experience in academia before that. So we've been through the pandemic for the past couple years. Has the search process changed or, or employers looking for different things?

You alluded to that a little bit in terms of how candidates need to be more flexible, but is there anything else [00:13:00] that's changed?

[00:12:59] Suzanne Teer: I would say absolutely. There have been some changes, both on the process of searches and also what our client institutions are looking for in terms of their leaders. On the process side.

I mean, I, you know, I go back to March 2020, you know, I remember my last plane flight home. Uh, I was in Iowa flying back to California plans completely upheaval because you know, meetings were getting canceled. Flights were getting canceled because of the pandemic and everything that we were doing immediately had to be moved into a virtual platform into the Zoom platform.

Uh, and it was a big shift. People weren't ready for it, but we adapted very quickly. I think that that platform is here to stay. We used to fly candidates all over the country for a 75 minute interview that will still happen. But I think it will happen a lot less frequently. A lot of our clients are going with video interviews for that first [00:14:00] round of interviews.

And I don't, I don't see that going away. Um, they have realized that it's effective, that it's efficient. They can save a lot of money, save a lot of wear and tear on their candidates and on the environment. So I certainly see that sticking around as part of the process. I think that some of the travel will come back.

Absolutely. But I, I really doubt that it's gonna come back at the same level that, that we were accustomed to. So what that means for candidates is. You know, being able to, to interview well on video is going to be a really important skill. Fortunately, we've all gotten much more comfortable, you know, meeting and greeting, uh, each other on Zoom, uh, and other platforms.

So I think that people are, are adjusting, but that is a skill coming across in a compelling way and engaging way on video does take some practice. So I think that's the biggest change that I would see in the, in the process component of search. I think from a requirements perspective and [00:15:00] qualifications.

More than ever our communities that we work with, our campus communities want leaders who are authentic, who are empathetic and who are compassionate. We've all gone through a lot over the past couple of years, the human qualities that a leader brings to their role. Now, I, I think are more essential than ever before.

Um, that includes, uh, a genuine commitment to inclusion and, and belonging. Organizations want community builders. They want leaders who care about the culture, who care about building inclusive environments and who care about the welfare of their team members. And that's really become a non-negotiable. So it's gonna be hard to move into a significant leadership role if you are not willing to bring your whole authentic self to the table. I would say also that there is a stronger desire for leaders who are creative, who are willing to take risks, who have this skill to move efficiently and decisively while [00:16:00] also being, uh, consultative along the way. So the bar has gotten higher in some regards.

And I think some candidates are more well positioned to, to thrive in this new environment than, than perhaps others are. Those are some of the changes that I'm seeing.

[00:16:16] Andrew Hibel: Today we're, we're hearing about houses that are selling the day. They go on the market with multiple offers that people are, are getting an arm wrestling matches or new cars that show up at dealers.

Every corner you turn, you hear about new jobs and job offers falling from the sky. It's a different world that we, we seem to be living in and a little bit different than what we went into with the pandemic. And obviously all of those are a little bit of an exaggeration, but when it comes to the job search has the rigor of the job search changed at all for both the candidate and employer, or is the basic premise of how you go about finding a job and how an institution performs its due diligence on you and you perform your due [00:17:00] diligence on the institution, has that changed?

[00:17:03] Suzanne Teer: I would say absolutely. That's changed. No doubt about it. One of the things that we noticed early on in the pandemic was that candidates were thinking much more carefully about the changes that they wanted to make and were willing to make the places that they were interested in going that the institutions that they were looking at and, and the geography.

From a geographical perspective, there was a strong desire for people to get back to their family roots, to be more closely connected with their families again. And some of those factors were driving, uh, decisions about which searches that they might become a part of and, and which searches they would not consider.

And I, I think we're still seeing some of that dynamic, I would say also the mission of an institution and that alignment between the values of the candidate. And the values of the institution were playing a stronger role. People I think were thinking about life is short. [00:18:00] We've only got, you know, X number more years.

What impact do I wanna have and where do I wanna have that impact? And I think people were becoming much more thoughtful about those decisions. It was less about, oh, I wanna be a dean or a provost or a president and more about, I wanna serve this kind of institution and help make this kind of an impact in this particular way.

So I, I definitely feel like we have seen some changes in that regard.

[00:18:30] Andrew Hibel: That was so thoughtful and absolutely reflective. I think of what's going on. There's an impression from candidates that aren't having an easy time of it now. Yep. That basically you send a resume in, you're getting a job offer and return.

Yeah. And institutions are, they're going through a job search still. It's still a job search. Yeah. They're not just cutting corners and saying, sure, come work for us.

[00:18:51] Suzanne Teer: I, I feel like the bar has gotten higher. I feel like institutions are holding their leaders and their [00:19:00] candidates to a higher. And what that means then is those candidates who can meet the bar.

There's gonna be fierce competition for them and organizations are not, they're not willing to, to sacrifice on certain values and certain qualities of their leaders. They're also doing deeper levels of due diligence and holding their candidates to a higher standard in terms of, of due diligence. We're getting what candidates have said in, in public that we can find in the media.

I can't tell you the number of candidates whose Twitter feeds, frankly, have gotten them into trouble and referencing at a very high level of detail and depth. So, we're definitely seeing a higher level of due diligence. And it's not working anymore to say that I support diversity equity inclusion, our clients wanna see a track record.

They wanna see that you've actually contributed and you've helped to move the needle.

[00:19:55] Andrew Hibel: I think our site has about twice as many jobs now. People are getting more increasingly frustrated that [00:20:00] there's so many jobs out there, but for some reason, they're the one person who's not getting a job offer.

[00:20:04] Suzanne Teer: I know that there are candidates who are frustrated. Who don't know why they're, they're having a hard time, despite all of the jobs that are out there. I think the competition has just gotten even more fierce for top leaders. One other thing I might add, and this goes back to an earlier point about knowing yourself. And what your values are your strengths, what you're passionate about. The day of applying for 20 roles, you know, that's not working anymore.

I mean, if, if, if you can't make a genuine case for why this job excites you, this particular job at this particular institution at this time, you are gonna have a hard time getting the attention of a search committee and getting hire. Our clients want candidates who are genuinely excited about their mission and about what they're trying to accomplish and are ready to roll up their sleeves and help [00:21:00] them achieve their institutional ambitions.

I worked with the search committee very recently. They asked us every candidate that we discussed, how excited was this person about this opportunity? Did you have to twist their arms? So this idea of an authentic, genuine interest in the institution and the opportunity is really important. And if you're applying for 20 jobs, it's probably unlikely that you're gonna be equally excited about all 20 of them.

I would encourage candidates to really narrow down their focus on the type of place where they feel like they can make a difference and get really excited about and be much more targeted in their efforts.

[00:21:42] Kelly Cherwin: I think that's great advice. And I think employers are gonna see that too, if you're inauthentic and, you know, sending out resumes left and right.

That kinda goes back to Andy's question about when should a candidate know if they should apply to a position, if that position really excites them, it sounds like this is what you just said so thank you so much for all that valuable information.

[00:21:59] Andrew Hibel: [00:22:00] And, and thanks for bearing with us, uh, through, uh, through the, uh, clumsy questions.

[00:22:04] Suzanne Teer: Nope, not at all. My pleasure.

[00:22:06] Kelly Cherwin: Like I said, Mike will do his magic and, and, uh, make me in particular sound better this time around so this was, this was great. I know our, our, our listeners are gonna gain some valuable information from this

[00:22:16] Andrew Hibel: And best of luck moving, as we know, that's not for the faint of heart.

[00:22:21] Suzanne Teer: Thank you. It's been a long time, so I'm gotta, gotta gear up my energy and we'll see where it takes us. Great to meet all of you. Thanks so much for all of your time.

[00:22:29] Kelly Cherwin: Take care. Thank you. Bye Suzanne.

[00:22:30] Andrew Hibel: For anybody out there listening who has questions for people like Suzanne or other questions related to job search and careers in higher education, please feel free to email us at podcast@higheredjobs.com or tweet us at HigherEdJobs with those questions. We have episodes specifically that we use to answer your questions. And we reach out to folks like Suzanne to help get answers to your questions. So please make use of our wonderful mailbag episodes.

[00:22:58] Kelly Cherwin: Yes. We [00:23:00] definitely want to hear from you. And I wanna do a quick plug for other WittKieffer articles on our site. There's a ton of information regarding the search process and how you can effectively put yourself out there on the job market. So check those out on our site.

[00:23:12] Andrew Hibel: Yeah and I believe there's even a really, really well done webcast. We have out there if you go to our YouTube channel. Thank you for listening. We look forward to having you back again on the next episode of the HigherEdJobs podcast.