Kelly Cherwin (00:03.64)
Welcome to the Higher Job Podcast. I'm Kelly Cherwin, the director of editorial strategy. My usual co-host, Andy Hibel, is traveling this week, so I'll be hosting today's conversation solo. We'll be talking about how colleges and universities can better support student mental health from preparing faculty and staff to strengthening campus-wide approaches to care. Our guest is Dr. Alexis Redding, faculty co-chair of higher education at the Harvard Graduate School of Education.

Dr. Redding is a developmental psychologist whose work focuses on how institutions can better support students during the college years and in the transition to the workforce. At Harvard, she teaches graduate courses preparing future higher education and student affairs professionals, including Student Affairs in Higher Education, a Theory to Practice Approach. She also leads the Professional Development Program, Mental Health in Higher Education, a Theory to Practice Approach for Student Well-being, which helps practitioners translate research into practical strategies

for supporting students on campus. Dr. Redding is also the editor of the book, Mental Health in College, What Research Tells Us About Supporting Students. So Alexis, thank you so much for joining us today.

Dr. Alexis Redding (01:10.914)
Thank you for having me.

Kelly Cherwin (01:12.504)
So Alexis, let's get into our questions here. Much of what you do focuses on helping higher ed professionals translate research on student development and mental health into practical strategies that they actually can use on campus. So what led you to focus on bridging this research and practice in this area?

Dr. Alexis Redding (01:29.186)
Such a good question. And the answer is actually in my first career, I was a college counselor working with young people in high school, day in and day out, to ask the big and important questions about what they wanted their future to look like and where they wanted to go to college. And in the process of doing that, I had the opportunity to get to know a lot of schools very well, spend time on campuses, meet the incredibly caring practitioners who were creating communities at those schools.

And one of the things that I started to realize is that there was a disconnect between the story that I was hearing about the supports that were available to students and what my students were actually experiencing once they started. In fact, I saw this pattern happening when my students would come back to my office, maybe on the first break home or after the first year they would stop by and they would tell me that college was harder.

than they had expected, that they were having more challenges than we had anticipated in our conversations together. And I started to notice this connective tissue, independent of who the students were and their lived experience or the institutions they were attending. There was this consistent misalignment between what colleges were offering to students and how students felt about taking advantage of those resources or even understanding how they could use them. And so I thought I would pause.

my work and get a one year master's degree to ask and answer questions about how do we do this work better. I am now 15 years in, I stayed on for my doctorate and now joining the faculty, training student affairs practitioners, but always with the idea in mind that started in my office all those years ago, that we can do better with messaging the supports that we have built for students so that we genuinely meet them where they are and they have what they need in order to thrive.

Kelly Cherwin (03:16.12)
Thank you for that and I'm glad that you took that break and asked all those questions and led you here to us today. moving into discussing a little bit about your program, you talk about breaking down the barriers between researchers, practitioners, and different campus offices. So why is this kind of collaboration so important when institutions are trying to address student mental health?

Dr. Alexis Redding (03:38.904)
The big thing for students is that when they are having a challenge on campus, they are having a singular experience. So the challenge is enrolling for classes or accessing campus mental health services or taking a leave of absence. And that feels like that should happen in one office. But as we know, because we work in higher ed, our institutions are incredibly siloed. And what happens is that student who's trying to navigate what to them is a singular issue.

lives in five different offices on our campuses. And so what happens for that young person who's trying to navigate a moment that already feels stressful is they're going from office to office to individual to individual, and sometimes even getting conflicting advice. And so what's important for us is to take the perspective of the student journey. How are they navigating this space, getting information, getting from one place to another?

And to begin to think about where we can build bridges so that there's a warm handoff from one office to another. We might not be able to get rid of the silos themselves, if that's how our institution runs, but we can know the person that we are directing them to in the next office. And we can help to scaffold that. What we see is that each and every friction point that is built into the process is an opportunity for the student to fall out of the process and not to persist and continue and get help.

but it is equally an opportunity for us to make sure they have the support that they need and have meaningful conversations along the way.

Kelly Cherwin (05:06.69)
love that perspective you have. I actually I have a sophomore in college and I can I can appreciate that. You know, he's had an issue. And to your point, like he thinks it's like that's a singular issue for him. And he thinks he could email one person and the answer should be emailed back or go to one office. And to your point, it's not. And unfortunately, he has like had some frustration, but like, well, now, why? Where do I go now? And like leaving the students a little lost is obviously not what we want at all. So

I appreciate the fact that you are trying to bridge these connections. And even though, yeah, a lot of campuses are set up to be siloed, we can still work together in those silos, if that makes sense.

Dr. Alexis Redding (05:49.134)
Absolutely. think, I mean, you're naming the feeling of being lost and the frustration that is so typical. I've interviewed thousands of students across hundreds of campuses, and that is a persistent issue. And then later on the idea that this is a fraught emotional moment when they actually need support the most. It's the worst time for us to be letting them down by not giving that warm handoff from space to space. Again, we can't get rid of the silos or, I mean, we can try, but that's a longer term solution.

But we can get to know our colleagues across the offices and we can make sure that the students are getting consistent messaging from space to base and they know where is the next stop. We can also build hubs of information. And so rather than having on our websites, a single page where you address each of the things that is going to come up in the offices, we can have pages that are themed around leave of absence policies, course enrollment policies, what happens when your financial aid didn't come through.

and there's a hold on your account but you need this course for credit, all of the offices can be on a single page and students then know, okay, this is the checklist, this is how I'm going down the list and I'm going to get the help that I need.

Kelly Cherwin (07:00.654)
I love that you said, so they know. And I think that is so critical because it is the unknown that's so scary. we as staff and faculty and administrators, we might know, we take it for granted. Like, of course they're going to figure it out. But as an 18 year old freshman coming in or now my sophomore, they don't know what they don't know. So I love the idea of this checklist and having it be digestible in a way. So it's not so overwhelming like, oh my gosh, do I have to go to seven different offices and talk to this advisor and then this, you know.

this counselor, but having it in one space. That's fantastic advice. So I know we touched on this a little bit here, but I'll add on here. So your work encourages institutions to step back and evaluate how they're supporting their students, whether it's through advising, campus services, or other resources. So when colleges take that broader look, what kinds of gaps or blind spots tend to surface, and how can they actually work on removing these?

Dr. Alexis Redding (07:57.132)
The answer to this one is, is surprisingly simple. And it's to sit down with your institution's webpage and pretend you are a student and navigate your way to a series of answers. As if you are engaging for the first time. It is amazing when folks do this institutional scan. Number one, how quickly they realize how many pages and parts of that website have popped up that are sort of disconnected from each other. How many broken links they're going to find.

or even how many clicks it takes to get to the piece of information that they need. So for example, in my professional development course, we have students who are all career embedded student affairs practitioners from folks in the counseling center to folks in the provost's office. And we have them sit down with a series of questions of you are a student, you would like to make an appointment with your counseling center. Figure out what that looks like. What is that experience? Does a chat bot come up?

How many clicks does it take you to actually be able to fill out the form to request an appointment? And one of those folks found that it was nine clicks to get to where you started the query to where you were able to submit that form. And before you were even able to request the appointment, what popped up was what felt like an incredibly vulnerable series of questions about what you were experiencing, how you were feeling with no notation anywhere on the page about who was going to read it.

If that was going to become part of your file, what was the privacy around that? And they realized instantly in a seven to eight minute scan that they were doing that there were these friction points that would cause a student to disconnect either out of frustration from getting to one point to the next, or out of feeling overly vulnerable and not feeling confident to put that information into the website. And so those are the kinds of scans that we can take on for all of the things that we're doing. We can also do it in.

the real world, walking around if we're working on a physical campus. What does it look like for a student who is food insecure to get to the basic needs pantry? And what are the implicit and explicit assumptions that we are making about the process of navigating those spaces? And we've seen that when student affairs practitioners do that, they're able to make these small tweaks. For example, having grocery bags that are the hard-sided grocery bags that have the big, thick totes.

Dr. Alexis Redding (10:18.424)
So that students can easily carry groceries that they're not carrying them in their hands, making sure that those spaces are well-stocked, that they are responsive to student needs and dietary restrictions. These are things that we can quickly see and we can also quickly fix while we begin to make broader sort of procedural changes.

Kelly Cherwin (10:36.204)
I absolutely love that advice of kind of putting yourself in the shoes of a student. I mean, it totally makes sense. yeah, I can see how clicking through nine times and putting in some vulnerable information is a little scary and overwhelming. that's great to take that perspective. I don't know if you can answer this, but are there ways that institutions could measure if their efforts are actually working?

Dr. Alexis Redding (11:02.51)
Well, for certain things, we can actually just track metrics of how many people are using the resources. So for example, is there an uptick in students who are using the food pantry when we relocate it to the center of campus? So it's not in some peripheral building where we don't leave with the assumption that it is embarrassing to use a food pantry, which it is not. Instead, we lean into the reality that all students might need this support at some point. And so we are not going to stigmatize that process. Same with making appointments for counseling.

we can actually track on the back end in terms of our web management when students are dropping off. Are they dropping off at click number six? And then the final thing that we can do is actually just start asking the students. So in addition to doing our own institutional scan, it's amazing how most of the problems that I am brought in to help schools tackle when they're trying to figure out why something is not working can be solved in a five to 10 minute conversation with a small group of four or five students.

They'll tell you right away that the misalignment is the shuttle schedule and how it is misaligned with the class start schedule or some other piece of the puzzle that's getting in the way that in some cases is an easy fix and in other cases we need to have a much more dramatic solution.

Kelly Cherwin (12:14.656)
Interesting. And kudos to those institutions that are asking the questions, like acknowledging that something isn't working and trying to resolve it. That's fantastic. So you mentioned your graduate students, your professional development classes. So you're working with graduate students who are preparing for careers in higher ed, as well as professionals that are already working on campus. So from what you're seeing, what's changing about how we prepare faculty and student affair professionals to support student well-being?

Dr. Alexis Redding (12:45.902)
For me, what I hope is changing is something that we are talking about as part of the book, Mental Health in College, and that is trying to decouple two things that are happening simultaneously for students. There are students who are having moments of crisis, who need the thoughtful, caring support of trained clinicians in our campus mental health centers. But the vast majority of students are actually struggling with typical and expected challenges.

Of loneliness the struggle to find friends of what it means to be in a moment of transition and all of that uncertainty and what's happening for faculty staff and administrators is those students are coming into our offices and we immediately panic because they do something like say I'm really depressed or I'm dissociating and they use clinical language that to us signals one thing that might not mean the same thing for them and so the pattern has been.

that immediately that student gets referred to the Campus Mental Health Center. Now, if they need the Campus Mental Health Center, we are fortunate that we have that resource for them. But the problem is, if every time a student says that, we immediately refer them. We've missed opportunities to have a real conversation with them, to make sure that we understand what's going on for them, and we connect them to other resources. In fact, we may shut down conversations that are important to have.

The problem is we don't want to miss something clinical. The stakes are too high. And so in many cases, we are accidentally overreacting. And so here's what we need to do. We need to take the 30 seconds to five minutes to ask probing questions. You said you're depressed. How is that affecting your life? How long has that been going on for you? What kind of supports have you already found? And what we might find in that minute is that that student really does need clinical care.

and then we know exactly where to send them. But what they might say to us is, well, it's been a really bad week. I got to be minus. I'm having a fight with my parents. I've been talking to a lot of people about it. And then that signals something else. That's a typical developmental challenge that they're having. And that's one that as a faculty member, I'm equipped to have. And in that conversation, I can tell them about.

Dr. Alexis Redding (15:06.722)
the tutoring services, the writing center. I can carve out the space for them to have that conversation. We want to make sure that all the students who need clinical care get it, but we also don't want to flood that system with students who are having a bad day. And so what seems really important in this moment is to empower every faculty, staff, and administrator with the tools to understand how to ask meaningful questions and to have a conversation that allows us to pause before we panic.

Kelly Cherwin (15:33.718)
You actually used the words exactly that I was thinking about. It sounds like you're recommending to, yes, pause and listen to the student ask questions instead of immediately. Nothing wrong with being efficient. And like you said, there's some students that do need to go to Path A and then some might need Path B. But yes, taking a pause and making sure that you can ask the question. So I know you mentioned faculty members. I want to keep going with that. So for faculty members who are listening today who might feel like they aren't

able to make a difference or they don't know how to ask the right questions and support these students. Do you have a strategy or there's one mindset that you would suggest that they could practice to help in these situations?

Dr. Alexis Redding (16:16.194)
I mean, I first of all, if they have any doubt, then refer. So always you want to make sure that the student is getting the help that they need. But if you're not sure, don't just let the word depression or PTSD stand in the room. Just ask, what does that look like for you? How is that showing up? How is that affecting your life? And if the answer is small, then it can be a smaller conversation. If the answer is big, then we refer.

I think the other thing that we can do as faculty, as staff, and as administrators is tap back into the memory of how hard it is to be a college student. We tend to tell these broad narratives about college being the best four years of your life. And with our rose-colored glasses retrospectively as we look back, that is the narrative that we let stand, or we remember how everything worked out even when it was hard. But in the moment, especially

18 to 25 year olds for students who are in college at that age. Everything is new and it can feel very intimidating and developmentally. We're in a moment of feeling off balance. We're experiencing disequilibrium. And if we can remember how hard that was for us and even share authentically parts of our story so that they understand that we struggled to that can make all the difference. For me, I make sure all of my students know about the C that I got.

my first year of college that is more important for them to know that I got to the other side and to my faculty role and nobody has ever cared about that. See nobody would know about that. See if I would stop talking about it. But to me, it's actually important that I lead with that, but it is okay to be imperfect. Your transcript does not have to be perfect. You have to be in the process of learning and it's empowering for them to know that and to see that and to be validated by that.

Kelly Cherwin (18:07.022)
I absolutely love that advice to share your story and acknowledge that it's okay to not be perfect. I'm assuming that a lot of this can happen during that very first, you know, the welcome week, the onboarding, but the orientation 101. you work with or do you see staff and faculty that are trained into, you know, helping these new students on campus to acknowledge like all some of these things that you just said?

Dr. Alexis Redding (18:33.966)
Absolutely. So my specialty and my research has always been focused on orientation and transition, both in the transition to college and in the transition to the workforce. So I do a lot of trainings and mentoring for folks who work in orientation and transition programming. I've also done a lot of research in this space that has shown that the thing that matters most is what is being messaged to students in the first 10 days that they are with us. It is a shorter window than we tend to think that we have.

So it's really important that we carve out space through orientation to signal what all of those resources are and to level set and make sure students know that this is a place where imperfection is fine and expected. It is just as important though to make sure that all of those resources are repeated and shared again throughout the year. We make a mistake if we only share something in those first 10 days and then we don't remind students of it that we don't embed those

conversations across the year and also in our syllabi. We tend to forget the power of codifying the language around here is how you get mental health support. Here is my language in the syllabus around attendance, which one of the chapters in the book written by Amanda Latz of Ball State University is on what faculty members can do to have warm policies in their syllabus.

To name and set the expectation that you attend all classes, but also to have language on the syllabus that recognizes that if you are ill and if you are struggling, there are alternatives. Reach out, you know, being communication, not to be so hard lined about the rules that we forget about the human being who is in front of us. And we do that in every sentence on the syllabus, whether we intend to do it or not.

Kelly Cherwin (20:18.124)
I think the idea of having that warm language, the appropriate language, and I know we've talked earlier about the food insecurity, but making sure that students know that it is okay to, like we should not be okay, or to ask for help. There shouldn't be a stigma of like, I'm not perfect. like you said, there's so much, I don't know what the, like false idea of, and especially when kids are looking at their Instagram posts and,

all their high school friends are having the most fantastic time and they're like, why am I not feeling like this? So, I think that's important that we acknowledge that.

Dr. Alexis Redding (20:58.734)
Absolutely. Not just acknowledge, but really lean into that narrative. mean, I'm scrolling on Instagram and seeing these picture perfect dorm rooms that look like they belong in a catalog for furniture company. Sorry. Have you walked into a dorm room recently? Like that does not exist two weeks into the semester. And yet, you know, students and their families are spending a lot of time thinking about how do I curate this picture perfect experience?

It is not going to be a picture perfect experience. You're going to have great days and you are going to have challenging days. College is hard. The process of growth is hard and that's okay. And the more we level set, the more we share that with students, the more that is part of the story of college, that this is an opportunity to find the supports that we need when we're struggling and to be imperfect and not to live inside of a catalog picture. All of those things are going to help them so that they know that they're not doing something wrong.

They're just having a typical experience and a typical experience is messy.

Kelly Cherwin (22:01.558)
Very well said, perfectly put there. So I know we talked a little bit about what faculty members and staff and administrators could do, but kind of broadening it to look at the big picture. If you could give some advice to a college or university that wants to make a meaningful impact on student mental health, but they don't have major resources or a huge budget, are there a few tiny little steps where they could start?

Dr. Alexis Redding (22:27.992)
Think it's exactly what I suggested before, which is getting student voices into the room. Create a series of a couple of focus groups at different days of the week, different times of the day. Get the really good pizza and lots of fresh berries, the kind of fruit that you don't get in the dining hall, and invite them into the room to share and ask them what isn't working. Where are the points of friction and what is? And then take seriously what they say, because they will tell us candidly.

And I have seen in my research, people can dismiss easily what students are saying is the problem. If you really listen, there's always something actionable there. And it's so important that we interrogate. So tell me more, how is that impacting you? That was one question that got to the aha moment of, this is actually signaling something around inclusion on this campus. And students are being dramatically impacted by something so small that we can actually fix.

Kelly Cherwin (23:23.554)
That's so interesting, you know, asking those questions and something that we might think, come on, that's such a small thing. However, like we said earlier in the conversation with these students, the young adults, one small thing is like what they focus on and it consumes them. Like that's, their life.

Dr. Alexis Redding (23:41.294)
Absolutely. think any campus decision that others, a group of students, is an opportunity to do better. And so it is my hope by asking the right questions that we identify those. Those are all friction points that we can help to remediate.

Kelly Cherwin (23:54.678)
And on a lighter note, speaking of asking questions, I was at a session one time and you know, I fully agree with the food. heard Panera chocolate chip cookies are what gets students to come. So good pizza and cookies and like you said, the good fruit. So the good fruit.

Dr. Alexis Redding (24:10.634)
Absolutely. It is amazing what the enticing offerings are that we can bring to students. And we're asking them for their time and for their candor. And so it's nice to be able to bring them something that they really like to.

Kelly Cherwin (24:23.416)
Well, speaking of time, thank you so much for taking the time today to speak with us. I really enjoyed our conversation. And thank you everyone for listening. And if you have questions for Dr. Redding or if you have comments about this podcast, please feel free to email us at podcast@higheredjobs.com or send us a direct message on x @HigherEdCareers. Thank you, Dr. Redding. Thank you so much for listening and see you next time.

Dr. Alexis Redding (24:44.098)
Thank you so much.