Track 9 0:02
Welcome to the Higher Ed Jobs Podcast. I'm Mike Walker, producer of the podcast. I usually am working behind the scenes, but in today's episode, I've scoured the Higher Ed Jobs Podcast archive to find some clips to honor Veterans Day. Today, we honor all of our veterans, looking to recognize the courage and sacrifice of those who have served. As they have in their service, let's go beyond just words. Saying "Thank you" for your service is powerful and meaningful, but actions speak more than simple words. Institutions have an incredible opportunity. Higher veterans support their professional growth and create spaces where their leadership thrives. This isn't just gratitude. It's commitment. Let's talk about how campuses can truly serve those who've served us. So let's dive into the Higher Ed Jobs Podcast archives, featuring episodes that focus on serving our veterans on campus, and for advice for veterans looking for jobs in higher education.

Mike 1:03
Welcome to Higher Ed Jobs Podcast. I'm Andy Hubble, the chief operating officer, and I'm with co-founders of Higher Ed Jobs.

Today, we have Alan Kellaga.

Track 6 1:16
We're

Greg White 1:16
60,

Track 6 1:17
talking with Dr. Greg

Alan Kellogg 1:18
And our guest today is Josh Ellen, who is the Vice President

Courtney Swoboda 1:22
for Georgia here

Nick Lavery 1:23
We're

Courtney Swoboda 1:23
today.

Nick Lavery 1:23
honored to have Nick Larry join us.

Track 9 1:24
So,

Greg White 1:25
big for.

Track 9 1:26
Courtney Swabota, Aterian

Mike 1:28
your.

Track 9 1:28
Veteran,

Mike 1:30
understand,

Track 9 1:32
shares what it's like to work as an active Air Force Reservist, Higher Eigic

Mike 1:36
and Programs,

Track 9 1:37
Professional, creating programming that help.

Mike 1:39
Project, education

Courtney Swoboda 1:46
It's, I absolutely love it. I feel like I wouldn't be where I'm at today without my service. It's really kind of provided me the pathway and really let me find myself. I don't want to say I was lost, but I definitely needed some guidance in what I wanted to do, and it definitely provided that for me, provided all these opportunities. So, loading conditions on the A-10 aircraft doesn't really translate into the civilian world a whole lot, but I come from human resources. So, I worked actually at the Missouri Veterans Commission at our Missouri Veterans home here in Warrensburg. I love people, I love serving people, and helping my peers in the military just kind of felt right. So, a position came open in our center here at UCM, and I was pursuing my bachelor's degree. I have great educational benefits on top of what I was receiving in the Air Force, so that's how I kind of found myself at UCM. And then I just kind of grew in the ranks and became the director, and it just, it truly has become a passion of mine. I'm so blessed with our leadership, our support on campus, so that's just a little bit about my background and how I've made it here today.

Track 10 2:49
I want to make sure we don't miss the best part of your background. Don't all those amazing things, but you also launched a statewide organization called Moves, the Missouri Organization of Veteran Educational Specialists. Can you just tell us a little bit about that too?

Courtney Swoboda 3:05
So, I think in this role, if you don't have your peers, it's very difficult. Sometimes getting responses from the VA, or just, you know, trying to interpret things that are going on is very, very difficult. So when I became the director, I really reached out to the peers in the state. I just started making phone calls. I was talking about, you know, things that are happening in our roles, things that are happening with the VA, all these different changes. And we're like, man, I really want to help other people in our roles within the state. So we started this Missouri collaboration group where we all just kind of met quarterly. It was very informal. We had guest speakers that would join us virtually. We have our SA representatives. We'd have different, like our Missouri State Tuition Assistance platforms, our federal tuition assistance representatives in our state. They would come in and speak and train individuals. It's kind of grown into this thing where it's very informal, And we want to... help each other. So it's very peer based. I think that's probably, in my opinion, the most beneficial thing about Moves is we all are communicating, we're working together, and we've really helped those students overall. It's incredible to look at, you know, a lot of times we try to buck it everything into, like, we're all trying to serve veterans and their families in higher education. But you're right, like

Greg White 4:16
time.

Courtney Swoboda 4:16
state to state. It is so different.

Track 9 4:19
In episode 80. Ellen Kellogg.

He shares

Greg White 4:28
veterans

Track 9 4:29
how

Mike 4:35
60,

Track 9 4:35
athletic departments, different organization and structure, compared with other departments.

Alan Kellogg 4:41
How is this a different from

Mike 4:43
big

Alan Kellogg 4:43
academic.

Mike 4:43
for.

Alan Kellogg 4:45
Probably the involve an HR is we're almost in a constant flux of reorganization. My graduate degree at J. higher education administration, ironically and so I did intern within some of the higher departments back to Drake. But one of the things that I see and I've heard this from others. is in athletics, you have to have an incredible sense of urgency with all your

Mike 5:12
your.

Alan Kellogg 5:12
actions.

Mike 5:14
understand,

Alan Kellogg 5:15
Decide on something. We're going to move out very quickly.

Mike 5:20
and Programs,

Alan Kellogg 5:21
He's going to allocate the.

Mike 5:23
Project,

Alan Kellogg 5:23
And then once the decisions made, we're moving.

Mike 5:25
education

Alan Kellogg 5:26
would say that's probably higher ed side of the house. And a lot of our actions require timely responses, a lot of our actions will hit the media and so. If we're asked for feedback, if we're asked for open records, we have to move rather quickly. And I think that's one of the things comparing my time in the military to athletics. There was a lot of comparisons because my time in the military. We had to make very timely decisions and there was a sense of urgency and everything that we did. And then the other thing I would highlight is with the university processes, you know, we have to adhere to all the university process and I'll use hiring as an example. You know, we tried that because we're competing with some of the other programs, you know, we move with that sense of urgency and so we're going to push it as hard as we can. And to make sure that we stay within the timelines and that, you know, if we need help, we're reaching out to certain leadership that we we knew that at times we have to move it super fast space, you know, give you one example. We've had some transition in a personnel right before the start of the season on the football staff. They had other opportunities elsewhere and so it's a sense of urgency to get those replacements in as quickly as possible so they're ready to go at the start of the season. Their first football game is 23 days away and so making sure that they have a full staff ready to go for that first football game. It's interesting. Alan, you've already brought up some of the comparisons to the military and obviously we talked about your 30 years of military experience. Violence actually been on the podcast before with a bunch of colleagues from the University of Louisville when we did a actual live podcast back in early 2024. And we talked about the veteran experience on campus for both faculty and staff and for students. It's interesting to me given a 30 year career in the military and reaching the rank of Colonel and then taking a pretty hard left turn. Straight into academia and it doesn't sound like there was any slowing down on your path, basically from one sense of urgency to another. Compare and contrast a little bit. Where is it a little bit different and where has your skills from your previous life

Greg White 7:45
your.

Alan Kellogg 7:45
really.

Greg White 7:47
understand,

Track 9 7:50
In episode 62, La Nessa Hezel,

Greg White 7:53
and Programs,

Track 9 7:53
Military Spacies

Warrior

Greg White 7:56
Project,

Track 9 7:56
Scholar discusses why

Greg White 7:58
education

Track 9 7:58
jobs in higher are great career

LaNaya Hezel 8:06
options.

I think it really comes down to universities, college campuses, whether they're physical or virtual, they're mini-cities. And when you think about serving in the military and if you're on base or you know connected to a base, it's a mini-city. And that means they're going to be objectives in terms of like what you need to do at that base or it's specialty no different than a college or university. They have their specialties but because it's an infrastructure, there are things beyond just teaching at a university. And so knowing that there are many jobs in the military, there are things that are transferable in the higher education space as well. And then on top of that, maybe it is teaching. They're instructors in terms of how to teach somebody to be able to do their next MOS or their next job assignment. And so there are practices and pedagogy that is learned in that process as well. You had told me I was going into higher education. I would have been like what that's a job? And I think a lot of people think about that in the military as well as being like wait you can work at a university and not necessarily be a professor. So I that that is one of the benefits. It's also beneficial to have military-connected folks working at universities because of our diverse experiences. Because of our leadership, our resiliency, our being able to really put something together with some you know a diver, shoelaces, and a matchstick in a paperclip to be able to make something work. And so I think that there are added benefits to having military-connected folks working at universities as well. And so if it's mutually beneficial, why is it not something that's more considered more often?

At the end of the day, higher education is also shifting. The landscape of military-connected students and support is shifting. And so if we want to maintain as an organization, we're going to have to figure out well how do we shift with it and make meaning and make an impact in the ecosystem that surrounds us. But it takes all of us. It's not just a couple of us. I love that it's such an iterative process

Josh Allen 10:29
time.

LaNaya Hezel 10:29
every

Track 9 10:31
In episode 24, Josh Allen VP of HR University shares his advice for colleges and universities higher and

Josh Allen 10:41
veterans

Track 9 10:41
retain and advice for

education.

Nick Lavery 10:46
And how are hiring looking at

social media plays an enormous part of hiring and recruiting our employees. And the reason I say that is when I transitioned out of the Air Force and came to the civilian world. My LinkedIn profile, you guys would be ashamed of it, right? I didn't have a profile picture, I didn't have a bio, anything. When I was transitioning out, they taught me a little bit about it. The civilian world taught me a lot more about what my LinkedIn profile should look like. I view my LinkedIn profile as

Josh Allen 11:18
So

Nick Lavery 11:18
a--

Josh Allen 11:19
say the government state recruits some fantastic veterans in to work at your institution. How do you keep them? How do you retain them? I don't think that's just veterans. How do you retain any employee during the great resignation? Usually when you have a veteran sign up for your organization, they're in it for the long haul. Minus any random things that happen that make them want to leave. The biggest way I've seen to recruit, retain, and keep our vets is really offer them that mission, understand the why of a mission. And it's, here's our strategic plan. This is what we're doing. No matter what level you're at in the organization, if they know the why, they're going to understand it and they're going to execute it. I would say that's the biggest piece, but that doesn't just go for veterans. That's every employee we have, let them understand the why. From the veteran perspective, I think this is what's important. Having a veteran on your podcast means the world to me. We have a lot of veterans that are just now starting their career. But having veterans that someone can reach out to and say, hey, Josh, I've got this problem. Or, hey, I saw higher ed jobs had a veteran on their podcast. That's the important piece. That goes worlds above what I can do for vets, just pushing that out there. So, thank you. With higher ed military, what we're really trying to do is give an avenue to have the discussions on these topics and kind of highlight within higher ed jobs. The stuff employers want us to do. Because those employers who want to recruit veterans really do want to recruit veterans. It's challenging because even though you Absolutely. You know, I love to hear that you guys had that website. And I was so thrilled when I heard about your team here that you can't say enough about what a veteran gave to this country, whether it's your initial four years, six years, 20 years. A lot of students go to college. Our vets went to serve their country and now are now looking to go to college and work. So within higher ed, that's the best of both worlds, because many of our organizations have free schooling, reduced schooling and you get a dedicated professional

Track 10 13:31
your.

Josh Allen 13:31
ready to join And from what

Track 10 13:33
understand,

Josh Allen 13:34
we we

Track 9 13:35
of

Josh Allen 13:35
listen

Track 9 13:35
an

Josh Allen 13:35
to a

Track 9 13:35
episode

Josh Allen 13:36
lot

Track 9 13:36
35

Josh Allen 13:37
and 36 folks in this field.

Track 10 13:39
and Programs, Project,

Track 9 13:42
Adaptability in our lives. And

Track 10 13:44
education

Track 9 13:45
listen in to hear Nixon spying story and his advice for implementing gratitude. Deciding how you

Nick Lavery 13:56
will. Will end. So knowing that why not just leave it all out in the field? Why not determine what it is you actually want, who you actually want to become and then begin working towards that today? Not tomorrow, not January, first, New Year, new me, forget all that. Why not some of the response is going to be, well, it's, it's a huge risk. Fear uncertainty. Other responsibilities. I'm a father. I'm a spouse. I'm a, yeah, you know what, all those things exist. And most of those things exist for most of us. It will not be easy, but as you thought this, you fast forward from the current life you're living now, 40 is 50 is 60 100 and you're 177 years old, God willing and you're looking back at today while you're listening to this conversation right now. Would you be willing to sacrifice those moments between them and now to go back and put it on the line to live your life according to your actual passions and purpose? Would you be willing to do that? And I think for those that are able to put themselves in that mindset empowers them empowers us to go for it. Because this game, we've been allowed to play is one that will end. And I know that for me, the fear of regret is one that drives me daily. And then, you know, I think you may have mentioned it. Kelly already. And that's the word discipline. And it's one that we're all familiar with. And many of you listeners are going to start rolling the rise. Maybe you're like, Oh, he's going to talk about discipline. He'll bad. I ate the donut this morning. I, you know, I'm such a horrible person. Like that's not it's not the point. And that's not the intent. However, in my opinion, discipline is at the foundation of success. And what is discipline most the willingness to exchange what you want now for what you want most. That's discipline. And fortunately for us, even though you ate the donut this morning, you had the whole pepperoni pizza last night. You went to the club and had too many drinks. Fortunately, for all of us, we are offered these opportunities every single day countless times. But without that without discipline, if you're only doing the things you know, you need to do when you feel like it. Spoiler alert, the game is over before it even starts. You may get a couple of wins here and now because motivation comes and goes. So what you're motivated, you're doing it great. And the only time you are executing, forget about it. You will lose to the person who is willing to do it. Whether they feel like doing it or not. And the fastest way I've learned to break this down is discipline, enables habits, habits, enables consistency and consistency is a requirement for progress. That's a simpler way for that to make sense to me. And you know kind of in a similar vein, I'll share the story with you guys. It's somewhat recent, but I was at an event that I asked this question by a guy and he said, you know, you got young kids now. And you're still a green beret active duty. You're still deploying, you're still going out at a hundred miles an hour like. Do you think maybe you owe it to your kids to kind of own that down a bit or maybe do something different. I'm not saying get out of the military, but maybe you know you do something different where it's lower risk, you know maybe you owe it to your kids to do something lower risk so that they have their father going forward. And I didn't have an answer for me. It was an amazing moment for me. I've been asked a lot of questions over the last decade. And that was one that caught me off God. I say, hey man, listen, I don't have an answer for you, but thank you for asking because I have something to reflect on and to pray on and to think about him moving forward. And I did. And, you know, I came to the conclusion that, you know, there's a time when our kids are going to figure us out. And I have this fear and also coupled with the sense of pride about looking forward. this moment where My sons or my oldest is, you know, asked about me. I need him to know that what I was attempting to teach him, I lived myself. Meaning, you know, you tell your kids, you can do anything you want to do in your life, buddy. You can be whoever you want. You put your mind to it. You develop a strategy, you work hard. Well, my fear is that he turns around and says, well, did you do that? And I live now. Being able to answer that question or almost make it so the question doesn't need to be asked because he knows because he lived it alongside me. So when I'm saying him, bro, you can be whatever you want to be in this world. He knows I mean it because I lived it and he,

Track 9 18:35
in episode

Josh Allen 18:35
60,

Track 9 18:37
great white veteran working as an associate professor shares his career journey and how the military

Josh Allen 18:43
big for.

Track 9 18:43
prepared him

Greg White 18:46
I tell nursing students when I work with. It's okay to not know what you want. They took every left turn to get where I'm at. I got my two year RN and then started working as an ER nurse. I had a deployment in the middle of nursing school and a deployment immediately after nursing school. I ended up working critical care at another center for several years before starting my master's becoming a nurse practitioner. I've finished my doctorate later while I was already teaching a wow, that's pretty amazing. And how did you transition from being a practitioner in the field to teaching this by accident. I had been teaching EMTs for the Air National Guard teaching refreshers and teaching regular courses. I knew I enjoyed teaching but when I was almost done with my master's degree. I was working night shifts in the hospital and I was helping out with the rugby team here at Scholastica where I currently teach and after a night shift in a morning practice. I was tired and thinking about, you know, I really do enjoy teaching. So I went to the main offices and asked if they had any adjunct opportunities. And it turned out for the last year they had been trying to recruit faculty to teach in their veteran to BS and nursing program who had a graduate prepared veteran and then willing to leave the bedside to teach. And so I was looking for an adjunct opportunity and left with a full time offer. And since then I still practice as a nurse practitioner and I had a debate in the very beginning if that's where I wanted to be full time, but I fell in love with teaching. More so than than I had before and decided to use those skills to be here. The main reason I decided to do it is when I was in nursing school my first time. I had been a flight medic. I had deployed. I knew some things and I knew how to do things well, but I really wanted to know why we were doing things and ask kind of that next question. And I had feedback from a faculty who was my main faculty that I wasn't acting enough like a nursing student and what I had learned in the military didn't matter. So I was going to reply here and that was a really eye opening and a really kind of a tough experience for me at the time. And when I was given the opportunity to build something build a veteran program here at Scholastica. I just thought of that moment and that I could potentially be the guy that makes sure nobody here ever had that experience. Yes, the evolution of the soldiers from the very first day we were there until the end. And I give a lot of credits to Norwegians for having an excellent curriculum went from 30 odd soldiers who were very uncomfortable in learning things and just tired. And then through a series of really in-depth practical exercises and very long days. Seeing them become more confident, seeing them make decisions and seeing several of them asks the next question. And I think that's the really, that's the part where I think that having some of the practical expertise of some of the folks that I was able to bring with me. Being able to take the time to answer the next question for those students who were advanced or those students who were understanding more because you teach to the baseline you teach to make sure that people are safe and they can practice and they can save some lives. But there are folks that are ready to take that next step that will be even better if given that time to listen to that time to ask questions. And I think that's one thing that we were able to spend a lot of time doing as well. So I think there's a lot of benefit. There's a lot of value in maybe kind of using that frame of reference ask the next question is somebody who was trained as a lawyer

Nick Lavery 22:15
then

Greg White 22:15
and my biggest tool in my toolbox is always been questions. They help further my knowledge. And asking the next question.

Track 9 22:23
This

Greg White 22:24
is somebody

Track 9 22:25
let's remember

Greg White 22:26
particularly

Track 9 22:26
our leaders innovators and problem solver. Higher education needs those qualities now more than. So let's move beyond

Nick Lavery 22:34
grad.

Track 9 22:36
Higher veterans support their professional career create. service will continue in-pack. Because honoring veterans isn't just about saying thank you, it's about building,

I'd like to

Nick Lavery 22:52
thank

Track 9 22:52
say my father, stepfather

Nick Lavery 22:54
grandpa,

Track 9 22:54
and and to all of the veterans. But I've been fortunate to know for their service, and thanks to all of you for listening. Looking forward to talking again

LaNaya Hezel 23:09
soon.