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[00:00:00] Andrew Hibel: Welcome to season three of the Higher Ed Jobs Podcast. I'm Andy Hibel, the chief operating officer and one of the co-founders of HigherEdJobs.

[00:00:09] Kelly Cherwin: And I'm Kelly Cherwin, the director of editorial strategy. Today we have our guest Hira Byrne Paulin. Hira is a disability and higher education professional.

She's a certified rehabilitation counselor and focuses on empowering individuals and becoming equal participants in their services and care. Her work aims to help destigmatize disability topics and conversations, especially in the military community. She works to lessen barriers to accessing and utilizing disability services.

She helps build collaborative interdepartmental pathways to connect service-connected veterans with campus disability services. She provides professional development to increase cultural competency on disability and military topics. Hira, thanks so much for joining us today.

[00:00:51] Hira Byrne Paulin: Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor to be here and I'm very excited to talk about the topic.

[00:00:59] Kelly Cherwin: Well, good. Let's dive in. [00:01:00] I know you've been working in higher ed for over a decade now at many different types of institutions. Tell us where your passion for this work comes from.

[00:01:06] Hira Byrne Paulin: Honestly, my passion for this work kind of happened by chance.

I followed my husband out to a very small remote place called Twenty Nine Palms, California. Most of you may know the area by its more popular neighbor, Joshua Tree or Joshua Tree National Park. And so I had been working on a local military base there. But I, I didn't feel like I was fully fulfilled or getting enough hours.

So, I happened to apply for a faculty role at the local community college down the road. And to my surprise, I got it. From there, I started in faculty and then moved to a staff role. And I have not looked back since. I found higher ed to be not only a place I have greatly enjoyed as a student, but to then be a part of the faculty and staff supporting the next generation has been wonderful.

And I particularly found the community college setting [00:02:00] very comfortable and familiar because that is where I actually started myself. And so, I've always been very fortunate to have phenomenal mentors throughout my academic career. And without whom I wouldn't be the professional that I am today. So I will give a quick shout out to Vivian Ostrowski of Holyoke Community College.

She was really my springboard. From there, I got to go to Springfield College and had phenomenal mentors of Dr. Michael Accordino and Dr. Joseph Stano. I am currently a PhD candidate at Northern Illinois University, and I have a phenomenal chair, Dr. Booten and a great committee, Dr. Fred Markowitz and Dr. Travis Martin. And with each degree tier, finding the right mentors and allies in the campus to keep you going is critical. So, when I found myself in the staff role in disability services, I knew I had found where I wanted to apply my education and training as a rehabilitation counselor. I admit, I did pivot for one year to a different [00:03:00] part of higher ed.

I went into admissions, but quickly realized that disability services really is my quote unquote home. And the reason being is I can't help but bring disability into almost every conversation I have. I grew up with disability topics as a normal part of the dinner conversations, actually. Uh, given my own disabilities and those of my siblings, I have been surrounded by what is a very empowered disability identity and community.

I watched my parents be the advocates for myself and my siblings my whole life and I know that not everyone is that lucky. And even the parents and guardians who are able to be really strong advocates, sometimes that transition to college can be very difficult. You're having to trust this other person to really be the advocate and the one supporting your student.

Not that they aren't involved, but parents and guardians take a little bit of a backseat usually in the college setting. And so I, I really wanted to be that [00:04:00] ally in disability services, to be that mentor, to be that support. Again, sometimes all you need is one person believing in you, but I just know the difference my mentors made.

And I feel it's a great privilege to be able to be there for other students and to relate to that journey of what does it mean to find yourself in college? I never thought I was going to go to college. After high school, I took a year off actually. And so starting community college, getting my footing, I want to help make college feel approachable and accessible to the people who never thought they'd be sitting in one of those classrooms.

So that's kind of the long-winded journey of how I found this passion for higher ed and in particular doing disability work within it.

[00:04:43] Andrew Hibel: Hira, please tell us a little bit about your current role.

[00:04:46] Hira Byrne Paulin: My current role is I am a learning specialist at Springfield Technical Community College in the Office of Disability Services.

And what's really cool about our campus is we're actually on a historical site. We are on the old Springfield [00:05:00] Armory, which used to, of course, develop and store weapons. So we are on a historical register. We have the nice big signs like they have at the National Parks. There's a lot of history there, a lot of refurbished buildings, and I've been very fortunate to join a phenomenal team of professionals, all of my colleagues, fellow counselors, and our, uh, assistive technology specialists have all been there for about two decades.

So, to be surrounded by that knowledge and expertise doing this work is just a sheer joy and I'm trying to soak up as much as I can from them while I have the pleasure of working with them because I know I'm sure all of them after surviving COVID like everyone else is probably ready for retirement.

It's a very fun role to be in again I'm doing academic accommodations, supporting students who are seeking disability services and, and again also doing that cross campus interdepartmental advocacy and support. It's a much more complex role than what I think [00:06:00] people think of when they think of what does a disability counselor do in a day, but it's never the same thing.

And I think that's part of the fun and the challenge of the role. I like being kept on my toes. It's a role that no matter what I am doing, I am learning along the way too. So as a lifelong learner, that's really special.

[00:06:19] Kelly Cherwin: Thank you so much for sharing your story. And I think a lot of us can agree that we are so happy that you found your home in disability services in higher ed.

So, thank you for the work that you do. So, the first question, I'm assuming that many of us have heard of the term disability services or may be familiar with the office. But for those working on campus who may not be extremely familiar, what are disability services in college, kind of the definition and what, what that encompasses?

[00:06:44] Hira Byrne Paulin: When I think of disability services and, and you'll see, uh, many campuses now are using accessibility services or other acronyms. We're kind of encompassing any office with a title that basically is providing accommodations for students with disabilities. This [00:07:00] can look a little different between your community colleges and your baccalaureate colleges.

In the community college setting, this really centers on academic accommodations, so classroom accommodations. And for the baccalaureate colleges, they are not only doing the academic accommodations, but also residential, because you're living there as a part of the campus. So, while types of accommodations may vary between institutions, all of the offices exist to provide access to the physical environment, whatever that campus is, and of course the academic learning space. That's what I think of when I think of disability services in colleges for the students.

[00:07:39] Andrew Hibel: Thank you. That description is simply awesome. Hira, what are some misconceptions, myths, or stigmas about disability services that need to be addressed?

[00:07:51] Hira Byrne Paulin: We loaded question. I'm going to try and narrow it down. And just because this is what I think are some of the big ones, please don't take [00:08:00] this as these are the only ones, but I think one of the first and biggest myths that we see in disability services for students is they think the only people that we serve and work with are those with learning disabilities. When in fact, we actually support the full spectrum of disabilities to include those with mental health, chronic health conditions, physical, visual, deaf and hard of hearing, neurodivergent. Disability services is not solely learning disabilities. It is all disabilities. And that's one of the biggest myths, and when students go, oh, I didn't realize that I could seek services based on, you know, this other type of disability, it's very empowering to them to realize that it wasn't just learning disabilities.

One of the things that I see, it's kind of a hard thing to discuss sometimes, but they're worried that students who are using disability services are not meeting the same academic standards, quote unquote, or the demand as other students. And this is sometimes [00:09:00] assumed, you know, I'm not pointing fingers here. Faculty and staff, sometimes fellow students, or sometimes this is the student themselves concerned that they are, you know, getting quote unquote a handout or, or some undue advantage, but they're not. They are utilizing disability services. They still adhere to the same academic standards and rigor.

They're still meeting the same student learning outcomes, and they are still adhering to the same student code of conduct. So, what may be stopping them from walking in is feeling like they're going to get a quote, unquote, different education than everyone else. And that's not the case either. This may be some of the difference students coming out of high school feel in terms of how accommodations are done in the high school setting.

But it is a little different in the college setting. One of the things that I see from students when they feel like, you know, our doors, you know, a thousand pound door. And why do I want to walk in there is this misconception that we, the professionals are here to diagnose or treat them in some fashion.

And while we often have a mental health training and education and background, and there [00:10:00] are disability professionals in disability services that are fully licensed and can do the therapeutic relationship and counseling. That is not what the academic accommodations part of disability services for and honestly, typically the mental health services aren't even housed in disability services. They're usually a separate office. Depending on the campus, they're sometimes, you know, attached to a full like mental health and well-being department. We either get associated with mental health and clinical or just learning disabilities. And again, it's that not always encompassing that whole disability spectrum that people think about.

And then the last big misconception I think is on the faculty side is that we are the enemy of academic rigor and integrity, when actually we are very strong allies in supporting student success and retention. We as disability professionals are here to support the faculty in creating inclusive environments and accessible content and hopefully support them really in developing universal design practices [00:11:00] that not only aid the students with disabilities, but all students.

So if we're, I try to narrow it down, I think those are the kind of the four myths and misconceptions I come up against the most in my, my day to day work.

[00:11:12] Andrew Hibel: Thanks. I think the kind of the, uh, all various areas of, well, you're not this and you're not that, and you're, you're trying to find where's that sweet spot. It's kind of indicative that disabilities in many cases can be very unique to the individual and can be visible and invisible, with this in mind, kind of addressing some of those misconceptions that you just went through, where would you like to see institutions provide more engagement and utilization of resources within disability services?

Both from a student and staff perspective, but also, I think we like to focus on student and staff. These communities that folks live in, I think it's a broader community sometimes that also has to understand the [00:12:00] unique journey of each person with a disability.

[00:12:03] Hira Byrne Paulin: This is a great question. So going back to the myths for a second, I think some students think that they're not actually disabled enough to use services.

But the reality is any student with a documented disability can seek and utilize disability services. They feel like they need some type of support, again, in the community college setting, this is usually around academic accommodations, but for the baccalaureate programs, this is res life to the classroom.

So that's kind of one of the things that I'd like to see more of is students coming and talking to the professionals in the office and saying, Hey, I'm not sure, but I'd like to learn more. It never hurts to have a conversation with us just because you do doesn't mean anything. Has to come of it, but it's all about, you know, getting the education, the resources, learning what is possibly out there.

And again, maybe that student doesn't need it, but then they know more. And then if they hear a friend talking about it, they can say, Hey, did you know? So it's all about, again, getting the information out there to [00:13:00] help it. And kind of building on that, I would like to see departments like ours be more normalized, like the other college supports.

You know, you think about tutoring and writing centers using office hours, dedicated programs for maybe first gen, low-income, military students. You know, these are often highlighted and emphasized across campus. These are integrated in orientations and all sorts of things. Brought in at the beginning of the semester, right?

A lot of faculty will be like, Hey, I'm bringing in this resource today so you can learn more about it. And I just really hope campuses are working to bring the disability office into those moments to show that we are a resource there for any student who feels they may need us. And just kind of including us in the conversation, I think it helps, especially if we get invited to do this quick intros, anytime we can get that face to face time with students, not necessarily just having them hopefully walking through our doors, it just helps them know we exist, how to find us, and that it's okay to come have a conversation with [00:14:00] us. And then on the bigger scale of that building on that the communities.

The way disability is ensuring that disability is included in DEI at all levels of a campus are critical both for students and faculty and staff. Again, I'm a staff member with disabilities. So if disability is being left out of DEI or a strategic plan, but other marginalized groups are being included, then you're not truly being inclusive.

Disability transcends all these other identities and therefore you cannot speak about the human experience or existence without including disability in the conversation. So, when I really think about that question is it really starts at the top. It starts as a cultural thing within the institution.

Disability needs to be part of that DEI; I effort. And from there, hopefully it trickles into all other entities of the campus.

[00:14:54] Kelly Cherwin: I love the fact that you're touching on DEI and being inclusive, and I know you've used the word ally a lot in our [00:15:00] conversation. And I just wanted to mention to our listeners that you recently wrote an article for us for HigherEdMilitary that was also posted on HigherEdJobs, and it's called A Faculty Guide to the 5 Ws of College Disability Services.

I just wanted to ask you quickly, just kind of give a highlight of what the article was about, but then also why did you feel like it was important that we have to highlight these 5 Ws?

[00:15:23] Hira Byrne Paulin: Yeah, so the article is really breaking down the who, what, where, when and why of services, kind of like we're talking about today, you know, who might benefit from this?

And again, this is not just students with learning disabilities, you know, when is it important for students to learn about us and get connected? The earlier, the better. You know, what is needed in terms of their understanding, the why is again, sometimes we don't know we need these supports and at the end of the day, I think a lot of times faculty really do want to help students get the resources they need.

They want to ensure that they are being equitable and [00:16:00] disability is still very scary for a lot of people. You don't want to make assumptions. You don't want to just assume a student has a disability and needs us. So, creating a piece that allowed, especially the adjuncts, I was an adjunct, there's so many of us out there who don't always get all the time to learn about campus resources. And disability services a lot of times it ends up on the back burner for institutions. So don't feel bad adjunct faculty. So I really wanted a resource that they could say, Hey, let me learn a little bit more about this office. How does it work? How do I connect students to it? How can I talk about it a little bit more, maybe feel a little more comfortable with language?

And then even if I'm not comfortable, here's a student handout within it. So I can post this as a resource. And then if students want to seek this out on their own, they can do so. It was really meant to, for my own experiences within the higher ed space of saying, man, I'm an adjunct and I don't know where anything is on this campus or how to do certain things.

And you do your best to reach out and learn things. Sometimes just having quick resources and guides can really allow you to focus on [00:17:00] your teaching and all of those pieces of your work and still feel like you have, you know, you'll have your life raft when you need it. That was the goal of the article was really to, again, bring this topic up potentially for campuses that aren't able to, or are spread thin.

There are many wonderful disability offices that are trying to get in front of people, and there are just certain barriers, again, depending on institutional buy in and support, or again, time and resources. For anybody who's like, oh, I would love to talk about this topic. I just don't have the time. This is also for my fellow professionals to say, here, somebody wrote something.

Let's share this and then we can connect faculty and give them support. That's why I wrote it. And I hope it is helpful again, either for the faculty member, the staff member, the administrator, and then of course the students themselves.

[00:17:50] Kelly Cherwin: Yes, it's a great resource, and we really appreciate you writing that, and we'll put a link in the description, so we encourage people to check that out.

Looking for more conversations in higher ed? We invite you to join the [00:18:00] higher ed military community as we discuss issues, best practices, news and general trends affecting our institutions and the higher ed military affiliated community. Inspired by the deep commitment to service that veterans and military connected faculty, staff, and leaders have towards the academic community.

We at HigherEdJobs established HigherEdMilitary as a resource for both original and curated news and information, as well as job opportunities from colleges and universities actively recruiting military connected professionals. Visit us at higheredmilitary.com on Facebook and LinkedIn.

Kelly Cherwin: Hira, as you mentioned in your bio, you aim to break down some barriers when it comes to disability services, so this is kind of a two part question here.

What do you find is the main reason that students may not want to use disability services? And then on the flip side, you know, what are some reasons that faculty and staff may not use disability services?

[00:18:44] Hira Byrne Paulin: The main reason that disability services or supports aren't utilized in general, whether you're a student or a faculty staff member needing them yourself, there's still stigma around the way in which disability is perceived by society.

I think that's still the greatest barrier [00:19:00] for any individual, anywhere at any time, not seeking some type of disability support. Again, students often don't want to seek services because they don't want to be othered or feel like they're, you know, not as capable as their peers. Faculty and staff don't always seek support through what is typically called the ADA coordinator because they don't want to seem incapable of doing their job.

So, for faculty and staff that are wanting or needing accommodations or support related to their disabilities to do their job, that's typically a role held in human resources. It's typically called the ADA coordinator. Again, this stems a lot from the fact that there is this medical model or deficit model of disability.

It's still very prominent. It's actually the foundation of a lot of the disability laws that are in play. But if you look around at the disability community, which is highly diverse, the advocates in the space show you a very different set of models. There's a social model, environmental model, identity [00:20:00] models, and these really center on the human experience.

Rather than the solely broken, quote unquote, need to be fixed model, which is more of that medical model that, that most, you know, outside of the disability world center on and focus on. So, I think when we look at that, you know, why aren't people seeking it? Cause it, there is often a deficit model associated with the term disability and seeking services.

I will say there are some wonderful people who are out there advocating and again, trying to help the general public learn about. The other models of disability and what is disability identity and what is disability culture. Some of these individuals are Julie Harris, Emily Ledoux, Katerina Rivera, Meryl Evans, Sherry Byrne Harbour.

Those interested in, in medical or allied health programs, Lisa Meeks is doing phenomenal work there. As we're thinking of this college setting, so the transition to college from high school, you have Elizabeth Hamlet and Annie Tolkien. [00:21:00] And, you know, for our veterans who are maybe still coming into their service-connected disabilities and their identity and what does that mean for them, I recommend Jill Hinton Wolfe, Bruce Thompson, Alfredo Torres, Hope White, and Ray Hahn.

All of these professionals are out there informing lots of different populations and the general public about disability and creating what I hope to be spaces where people are feeling more heard, more understood, and that it is okay to be your whole self and to seek support and services. It's not anything bad to say, I do need some support and help.

And just like I would go to the writing center, if I needed something related to my disability, that's going to the disability center. So just again. If you need support, it is there in existence and as campuses continue to build their culture of acceptance and DE I, again, I continue to hope that disability is brought into those [00:22:00] conversations.

[00:22:00] Andrew Hibel: I kind of want to try to bring a few things together from several of the last questions. It kind of really struck me being someone who was born disabled with a visible orthopedic disability. I'm not often stopped throughout my life by people who have questions. The idea when you're out there in a classroom setting in 2023, or you're in a professional office at a college or university.

And you imagine yourself having one of these conversations, I think there's a reasonable fear that maybe I shouldn't lean into this, it's not polite to talk about it or say, you know, we can offer some services. I don't want to presume anything. And I kind of want to just say to both sides of the conversation, if you're a person with a disability who's going through life that way, and somebody offers that at a college or university, lean in and be human and be present and see what they have to say.

I'd say most instances, people are trying to help. Occasionally, there's a few curveballs thrown your way, but most of the time, [00:23:00] if you're open to the conversation, it works well. And for folks who are contemplating having that conversation, and doing exactly as you're advising, Hira, which is actually letting people know what these services are available to them.

It's not just for this or that or anything. That is a great way to be present and human and be decent to another person. You have a chance to take a small moment and make it a big moment in somebody's life. So, I would absolutely say lean into that. As I think about my nine years of being on a college campus as a student, I can honestly say I wish a few times I would have lessened my barrier and I wish people would have told me a little bit more because it definitely would have made my experience easier.

For what it's worth, that's my take from now 55 years of living. I think this is our last question. So, as we transition into that, this is more related to job seekers. So, as a job seeker, how can a candidate best start [00:24:00] a dialogue about the disability services available to them at an institution? Balancing the idea that you're trying to land a job, but at the same time, trying to figure out how good of a fit this job is for you based on some of your disability needs.

[00:24:15] Hira Byrne Paulin: This is a very loaded question. One of the big things is for job seekers is deciding when to disclose, because it is not a one size fits all process. This is where I will strongly recommend following again, Julie Harris, as well as Hannah Rose Olson, when I say follow, I'm talking about LinkedIn, because disclosure and navigating workplace accommodations isn't always easy.

It's not as straightforward, as I'd like to say, is as the academic or student seeking disability services. So, workplace accommodations are a whole other experience in the disability journey. Ideally, an inclusive institution is providing clear and accessible information on how to seek accommodations.

And hopefully have a very smooth process for [00:25:00] implementing them, kind of knowing how ready a campus is to receiving any accommodation requests from the faculty or staff is again, looking at who is their ADA coordinator, what forms or processes are easily accessible and able to find, you know, are you digging through 10 million different windows just to find where that person is?

That's probably saying that person's buried somewhere in a dark corner of the campus and good luck finding them. So, looking for those beacons of, oh, here's where accessibility is clearly already at the forefront of this campus. Again, looking at some of that, how they're doing it on the student side. So, there are some small ways to kind of see, do I feel safe disclosing?

Obviously, somebody who may need an interpreter for an interview, that's a pretty obvious disability and, and may need those accommodations right up front through the interview process. Others decide to wait to see what works for them in the workspace once they're there. Again, many people with [00:26:00] disabilities self-accommodate, meaning we have adjusted the way we function and do things and operate because that's just who we are.

We're used to it, right? And we're used to environments not being ready for us. So we just do our own thing. So sometimes people with disabilities like myself, we don't always request the accommodations because we figured out a way to make things work. So disclosing really comes down to the individual, how immediate is the need of the accommodation?

And again, what is the environment? What is the task they're trying to complete? What is their experience? What are their actual needs in that moment? I'd like to say that. It should be a very smooth process, but those of us in the community, sadly know, that isn't always the case. So a resource for understanding actually workplace accommodations and how to advocate for yourself is the job accommodation network or JAN for short.

And again, they're trying to help both employers. And the employee understand what are workplace accommodations? What are some common ones? [00:27:00] How do you implement them? What does it look like at different sizes, you know, institutions or companies or things like that? So again, sometimes we don't know what we don't know. As the job seeker sometimes the institution is like, Oh, I, we just never done this before. It's not that we won't, it's just, can you help us learn what this means and what is needed? It is unfortunate sometimes, and this is any marginalized group, we have to educate others. You don't always want to have to do it, but sometimes that is the only way.

And I always say when I've had to do it, I'm opening up the door for somebody behind me not to have to do that. Again, this resource I think has been very helpful. Again, much like in the college setting for the students, an employee is expected to know exactly what they need for their accommodations, for their disability.

Now, if somebody is newer to their disability, service connected veterans, late in life, disabled adults, all sorts of reasons, right? Disability happens across the lifespan. Knowing what you need may be harder to describe, and also you may not know what you need yet. [00:28:00] So again, that's where JAN and those I mentioned can kind of help people learn how to be their advocate.

Cause again, at the end of the day, the burden is still on the individual to advocate for themselves, to always be able to say, this is what I need. This is how I'm experiencing whatever's going on around me. You don't have to be alone in that advocacy journey. I think that's the other piece of this. A lot of people feel very isolated and siloed and likeliness is there are some rare conditions and things, but for the most part, you're probably going to find somebody who's had a shared experience. Maybe it's not the same disability, but maybe it's the same fear of how do I disclose in the workplace? Or maybe it's, I'm used to having it this way, and now it's something else has changed.

Or maybe you have a condition that is going to progress and change over the lifespan, and now you're at a different phase of your disability. And while we talk about how to seek these services, what to do with them, I think the other piece of this conversation is also finding your disability community, finding the [00:29:00] people that you can speak to and learn from.

Even as a member of the community, we can all learn more. Everybody I've mentioned today, I've learned so much from as a professional, as a person with disabilities. So when you go about this process, whatever it may be, wherever it is happening, just know you're not truly alone. In this space of trying to get accommodations, trying to push that line a little bit further on what does DEI; I look like for all of us, because it can get tiresome.

People also don't want to be tokenized, and so that's the other piece. If you're finding you're going up against. Employers or disability offices that aren't understanding maybe what you're asking for or the message or the concern. The people I listed here are out there to take the hits. They're out here to do some of the educating and the training.

You don't have to be that person if you don't want to be. I always tell this to all the individuals I work with. I keep a little [00:30:00] list of people like I just named and a list of books. And so whenever I get into a conversation and somebody wants to know something about me or about a topic I know, and I just don't feel like I have the energy or maybe the bandwidth.

Or just flat out the desire to talk to them about it. I give them a name or I give them a resource. And so, I think that's helpful to say, I understand you want to learn and I'm grateful, but I'm not going to be the one right now to teach you, but here's a resource that I hope you'll go use. That's also the other piece of being in the space is protecting those who don't constantly want to be quote unquote in front of the firing squad and having to always put their personal story out there.

There are individuals doing it so you don't have to, and hopefully you can feel less constantly in the spotlight. I see it a lot in the workplace accommodations in particular, more so than the student side, where employees feel like they are the only one they're being, you know, quote unquote, forced to be the spokesperson for people with disabilities at their place of employment. And you don't have to be.

[00:31:01] Kelly Cherwin: That's wonderful advice. And thank you for that resource. We'll list that one as well.

[00:31:05] Andrew Hibel: Thank you, Hira. That was wonderful. If you have questions about disability services for Hira, or any other question for our Ask the Expert series, please feel free to email us at podcast@HigherEdJobs.com or tweet us @HigherEdJobs. We'd love to hear what you think. Thank you, Hira, for being with us today and offering such great insights into the disability community and disability services. Thank you for listening today. We look forward to welcoming you back to our conversations.