Andy Hibel 0:04
Welcome to the HigherEdJobs podcast. I'm Andy Hibel, the chief operating officer and one of the co-founders of HigherEdJobs.

Kelly Cherwin 0:11
And I'm Kelly Sherwin, the director of editorial strategy. So the article that we're going be talking about today is called How to Find Joy in Your Job Search. And we understand that sometimes a job search can really suck. But we're here to talk about how you eventually can hopefully find that joy. So the introduction paragraph actually summarizes it really well. So I'm going to set that up and then we'll talk about the article a bit more and our thoughts behind it. So Eileen starts out with saying, "Looking for a new role in higher education industry can cue a roller coaster of emotions. It can feel exciting, humbling, stressful and urgent. Hyper focusing on the outcome may seem hard to avoid if you are between jobs or if you're aiming to free yourself from an ill fitting situation. But a successful search involves more than just solving an immediate problem. It's an ambition to discover a role in an institution that truly suits you." So, Andy, after I read that paragraph, what are your thoughts on finding joy in your job search?

Andy Hibel 1:04
Thanks, Kelly. I think the opening paragraphs fantastic. And I promise to you all who are listening, we're not going to read the entire article to you, but I actually want to read the next sentence after that paragraph, which is, "Finding peace and clarity in the process stands to aid the project because how you feel about your job search is one of the few factors over which you have control." I'm going to repeat that last part of the sentence. How you feel about your job search is one of the few factors over which you have control. That is an absolute truth of job search. I think to me that is one of the essential elements of this piece and we'll go more into it. But with the other part, and this is also something that was hinted at in that introductory paragraph, is talking about outcomes .So much of a search is about each immediate outcome. Hey, I sent out X number of resumes today. Hey, I got an interview today. Hey, I had an interview today. Hey, I got a second interview today. I got a rejection letter today. Out of the 20 applications I sent out last week, I haven't received a single email saying I have an interview, let alone any of them have responded saying they even received my application. All of those various outcomes trigger emotions, and if you live by the positive emotions and you die by the negative emotions, you you're absolutely going to ride the rollercoaster of a job search from an emotional perspective. And I love how this article sets the job seeker up for success to do their best to channel the positive emotions, to find joy in the process, and temper some of those negative emotions to be focused on feeling down and the part of the roller coaster that is the job search.

Kelly Cherwin 2:58
Well said Andy. Actually, one of the things I highlighted from the article was regarding the outcome and detaching from the outcome. I mean, obviously ultimately can't detach completely because your goal is to find that, you know, that next role or that next job. But going through the process, like you said, you have that ability to decide if you're going to have a good day, if you're going to be positive about it, if you're going to take that, you know, maybe it's a rejection letter. Are you going to take that rejection letter and maybe learn from it? Are you going to take the interview that you just did and learn from that you have the decision to control what you can control. We have a little sign in our house saying "today is a good day to have a good day". And I really look at that in terms of the job search as well. Like you can wake up in the morning and say, today is the day. I'm going to learn from that and make the best I can, even if it's not always the answer that I was expecting. So taking away a little bit, the hyper focus on the outcomes I think is key to finding that joy in the job search.

Andy Hibel 3:59
In my process just a little bit more. I think when people hear something like that, it's easy to interpret, well, I shouldn't get too down on their lows, actually. I think the important part is not only to not get too down when there's lows, but not to get too high when there's highs, when your highs go higher than they should. When you go to the lows, it's a big fall. Try to stay as middle of the road as you can. And I think kind of getting to the joyful part of this, when you're able to understand that the process has to be something that's supposed to be a growing process to you and kind of a metamorphosis into something new, I think it's important to remember that you're focusing on that and that the process is going to lead you to this destination. How you get there, there's going to be bumps in the road. There's going to be red lights. You hit. There's going to be bad traffic in some places, but eventually you're going to get to that destination and be joyful about it. I think the other part and I just feel I want to put this caveat out there for folks who have been through a longer job search or in a harder job search or must accept a position because they're circumstances of their life requires them to take whatever job comes their way. We've all been there. Understand, we've all been there. I know it's going to be really hard for you to find joy in your job search, if this is the type of search you're currently in. Understand trying to have some concept that we've all been there and we all pull through it, that to me will help you find a little bit more bandwidth and headspace to be able to get to that destination you're seeking.

Kelly Cherwin 5:40
Thank you for saying that, Andy, because that that's the last thing I want to do is paint this picture that it's easy to find joy when you get rejected or it's easy to find joy when you have to, you know, maybe go on that interview that you just didn't anticipate doing. So, yeah, we definitely understand that it's not easy and you're right, we've all been there. But if you can embrace the process and know that things happen for a reason, maybe, you know, you really thought that you were a great fit for this position and it didn't work out. Know that there's something different that is going to be a better fit for you. I actually would like to back up a little bit and talk about like before you even decide to apply for positions, Eileen suggested cultivating your back story. And I think, you know, knowing the reasons why you're going into a job search and being honest with yourself, kind of assessing the situation, learning from your past experiences, learning what you liked in previous positions, what you did well, maybe worked with a supervisor well, in this way, maybe a supervisor, you know, challenged you in certain ways, kind of doing an audit of why you were there, I think will help you kind of prepare for what you're going to need to address in your interview in that job search, which will ultimately hopefully, you can find joy when you get to that point.

Andy Hibel 7:02
I read that section about cultivating your back story, and I thought to myself, a good process starts with understanding the emotional genesis of why you're starting the process and clear goals of what you're looking for differently. To me, I love the questions are in there from the emotional standpoint. I think looking at your current position as to what works well on what you really value in your current position and what else it is that you're seeking, I think that will help to give you an objective set of criteria of why you're making the change, letting your emotions make the change for you without even taking contemplation on what are the real things you're looking for. I think a lot of people will say, I'm always looking for more money. Why are you looking for more money? Are you looking for more money? If the job makes your life much more complex, if you're picking up your kids from school every day after work with their current position but can't in your next one, is that something that a five or 7% raise will be something you're willing to give up? Find those reasons of why you might be looking, but also what is it that you value about your current position? And if you tell me, Oh my God, this is the worst job I've ever had, there's something I value. I don't think you're actually looking hard enough. There's something about the position you're currently in, in almost every instance, that you will value. Take stock of that in your back story as well.

Kelly Cherwin 8:37
But then we also have to think about people who are not currently working. Maybe they left that position or they got laid off. You know, they have to ask themselves similar questions.

Andy Hibel 8:46
I think that's very, very fair. I would ask them and if you can, trying to think of your whole career story for every position, do this, write it down. So if you ever do get to that point of, Oh, I'm out of work and don't have a current job. You'll be able to look back on the things that you've valued at other points of your career. Might not value them currently, but at least you'll remind yourself of that accounting that you had done in real time of those positions. To me, there's value in every role that we have to help us tell our own career story, figure out what that is. I also think for the interviewing part, if you're able to channel those sorts of things, you can put a lot of positive on parts of your resume that maybe weren't all that positive in your opinion or in the forefront of your opinion that you're then projecting the joy that you're trying to find Later on.

Kelly Cherwin 9:42
In a previous podcast, you and I had talked about keeping your resume up to date and, you know, like you're saying, making sure you you're remembering what you're doing in each position so you can talk about that in the future. Another thing that I like in terms of what Eileen was suggesting here, and you were just kind of alluding to, it was, you know, talking about what you found joyful or what you liked in that current position and what you didn't and Eileen suggests journaling. So it kind of helps you remember, you know, not only I liked these tasks or the really good these tasks, but how they made you feel, and then you can kind of move into that and, you know, evaluating your next role.

Andy Hibel 10:17
Absolutely. Her suggestion of journaling, I think also talk to a friend. I really like all of the things, but the idea of actually having a written record of it that you maintain for yourself, I'd really, really recommend that. I think it's worth your while. I think kind of from the back story, Eileen goes into talking about detaching from the outcome or kind of how we've been referring to it as it's all about the process. As we know, there's not a lot you control. What's your big takeaway of the advantage to the candidate when they detach from the process?

Kelly Cherwin 10:50
I think it's not taking things so personal and knowing that you can control what you can control and not getting so focused on like I have to get this job, otherwise I will be a failure or this is my quote unquote dream job. And if I don't get it, then I'm never going to be happy. So if you remove yourself from those type of feelings and take the approach of like what will happen, will happen, I will do everything I can to prepare myself to get there and kind of letting go of we talked about earlier about those emotions that lead to anxiety. I think you'll be you'll be happier. And I know we keep using the word joy, and I want to keep stressing that. I know that it is it's joy sometimes can be a stretch to get or to even use that word in a job search, but understand that the process will eventually if you trust the process. I mean, actually this goes into sports as well. My kids coaches often tell them trust the process. I mean, as you're going through it,it's sometimes is really, really hard. And it's like we're talking before full of the rollercoaster of ups and downs and there could be tears and smiles and all that. But when you come through that process and find that role that is a good fit for you, then you'll be like, Oh, now I get why I have to kind of detach from that, that outcome.

Andy Hibel 12:16
I'm going back to sports and being the Packer fan that you are, I'm going to quote one of Vince Lombardi most famous quotes, which is, "Strive for perfection and in the process achieve excellence." And maybe to me, the idea in this process is strive for joy. But what you're really hoping to is achieve peace. Just find that place where you're at peace with your search. Under the detaching from the outcome, there was a certified coach explained, talking about the interview being a rehearsal for practice to tell your career story. that's what this is all about, is telling your career story and being able to be at peace with telling that story and finding the points of joy that you maybe had in your career. But this coach, Adam Kline, says "Essentially, each interview strengthens your ability to articulate the experiences and abilities. So when the time comes, you are ready for it. And maybe that's just it. We look at the interview as, "This is my chance to get the job." I actually love the idea of reframing the interview as this is my chance to tell my story and learn from that experience. That's what this is about. And if I do it well and this is the right position, then the process will lead me to this being my job.

Kelly Cherwin 13:34
And if you are authentic in your story and the institution doesn't feel like your story is a fit for them, that's okay. Your story, your career path. It will be a fit somewhere. So you just have to believe that.

Andy Hibel 13:47
I really, really loved how Eileen. Close the article. She closes it with a quote from Adam Klein once again, and it really summarizes if you re-imagine what a job search is about as the process and an ability to tell your story and walk that middle ground of not being too overly excited or too overly down from each step in the process, it really can result in something that's important. And Adam Klein says, quote, "One of the most exciting aspects of a job search that often gets overlooked is how it pushes you to redefine what success means for yourself. It's a moment to pause and really evaluate your goals and values." Unquote. To me, that is just a simple summary of, at its best, what a job search can be. But because of what job search is nowadays, it's so hard to really strive and do it in that fashion

Kelly Cherwin 14:47
My favorite quote is actually from that same paragraph, and it says, "You decide how to emotionally approach your job search." So I'm wishing joy in everyone's job search.

Andy Hibel 14:56
And I'm wishing the same. If you have any thoughts on this piece or the thoughts that Kelly and I offered in this podcast, please feel free to email us at podcasts at HigherEdJobs.com or send us a direct message on X @higheredcareers. Thanks for the conversation, Kelly. That was a lot of fun.

Kelly Cherwin 15:13
Thanks, Andy.

Andy Hibel 15:14
And thank you for listening. And we look forward to talking again soon.