Andy Hibel 0:02
Welcome to the HigherEdJobs podcast. I'm Andy Hibel, the chief operating officer and one of the co-founders of HigherEdJobs.

Kelly Cherwin 0:09
And I'm Kelly Cherwin, the director of Editorial strategy. Today, we're happy to have Chris Lee back for our Ask the Expert series. Thanks, Chris, for joining us today.

Christopher Lee 0:17
My pleasure.

Kelly Cherwin 0:18
So our question for Chris today is, do colleges and universities remove applications after a certain amount of time for open ended applicant pools? If so, how long should I wait before I resubmit an application? Chris, what are your thoughts on this?

Christopher Lee 0:32
This is another question that has a couple potential meanings. So we'll cover both to make sure that we are covering our bases. There's a legal sort of orientation to part of the question. There's a talent management philosophy that the organization will have, and then there are different kinds of openings. So open ended could be, you know, open until filled and open ended could be what they call pooled positions, which are positions that stay open for a long period of time because that's a field where there's a lot of turnover and usually a number of positions. So, you know, it might be those admissions counselor type positions where, you know, you expect new college graduates to spend a couple of years there. Right. They graduate. And then like many young people, they spent four years at the institution. They loved the place. They had the time of their life and they're thinking, man, I don't really want to grow up yet. Right. Because this has got a cool life here. I can get a job across campus and hang out with my buddies or that special guy or girl, and he's like, Man, that admissions job is perfect for a couple of years and then they're going to move on to something else, right? Or go to graduate school. So those positions may sometimes have what they call pooled positions where they accept a lot of applications, and then when there's a vacancy, they can easily go to that position and just fill it because, you know, there's a really cool pool of applicants there. So it depends on how the person who asked the question phrased it, but will cover both. So let's start with the basics that the law requires organizations to keep positions from 1 to 2 years, whether you're your federal or state, and a few other kind of legal sort of parameters. There's a minimum time they have to keep applications because if someone challenges the process and you know, you got to have those records to show what's going on there. So notwithstanding law, then it's the talent philosophy of the organization today. If you apply for a job at a college, a university is going to go into what they call an applicant tracking system. It's a big fancy database that accepts applications and keeps all kinds of data on the applicant. Now, many will automatically purge the stuff like your resumé and cover letter after a certain period of time. Some don't. And and separately from your career job experience is your demographic data of name contact information and then what they call kind of a competency profile, which is in student services, you know, and there's a whole bunch of keywords around the jobs and skills that marry up to different kinds of jobs. So that keyword bank is really, really useful for the organization to then be able to search in the future. So it's kind of two parts of the whole your actual resumé and cover letter and materials and then that profile that remains in the database probably forever, because next week, next year, you know, you may have a new job and you might be qualified for it. And those folks could potentially just throw in a couple of keywords and say, anyone with financial aid experience, they pop up and then, you know, you simply send out an email to say, Hey, we've got a new job available in financial aid. You could be a great candidate for that job. Really important in hard to fill positions and you know, is faster, right? If they have all these applicants from from the past because if you had 50 people applied this year and 50 people two years ago and 50 people, you know, the year before, you got 100 and probably 47 people who are potential applicants because you only hired one. And the people three years ago, they weren't ready yet. Now they might be ready because they went off somewhere else and did a lot of experience. So, you know, that information will be in the applicant data base. So that's kind of something important for people to know about how the information is kind of tracked by those modern systems.

Andy Hibel 4:43
Thanks, Chris. That's an excellent summary. The applicant tracking system or the ATS's, as they're sometimes known, are pervasive in academia. And I would suggest that the first question would be if you're applying them, one of those understand that your resume and your cover letter and any other materials you might have are probably going to be electronically parsed and placed into the applicant tracking system. Understanding that is a whole different set of discussions. And maybe if if you're out there listening, you have questions about how that might work that you want Chris to answer in a different, Ask the Expert please email us at podcast at higheredjobs.com or send us a direct message on X @higheredcareers. If you're able to do those the process and you get parsed into the applicant tracking system and it's all there. I love the suggestion that universities look at those talent pools of candidates who were not successful in that original search and do go back to them. That's absolutely true. I actually once landed a job that they had had my resume for three years before they called me and said, Hey, would you come in for an interview?

Christopher Lee 5:53
Yeah,

Andy Hibel 5:54
that happens in reality.

Christopher Lee 5:55
Yeah,

Andy Hibel 5:56
I would offer that advice to anybody about the kind of the X's and O's of how it works. But I'd also say apply for other positions. Don't think they're going to find you simply because you found another job. If there's another position that's applicable, apply for it at the institution. The idea that somehow the ATS is going to figure out that you'd be a great candidate for a different position, don't make any assumptions there. I think sometimes you feel like, well, they know who I am. They thought I'd be good at this. They contact me. Nope, just re-apply, reapply, reapply. That's not a timing issue. If there's four positions in the month, apply for all four of their different positions by all means. So that's probably the only additional thought I'd offer.

Christopher Lee 6:46
So then that begs the question, are you peppering applications or are you targeting applications if you're qualified for the positions apply. But it's like sometimes I've worked in colleges and universities in small towns. I'm a small town person. I'm not a city person. And sometimes people just want to work for the university, so they apply, you know, all the time. For any position, because they really want it, they're looking for an employer with great benefits and great pay, not necessarily for a specific job. The disadvantage to peppering the organization is all of that information is in the database. Right? And so the HR staff will have access to that information. And if a person's a quote, nuisance applicant, they'll probably share that with hiring managers. But if you are qualified for a job, absolutely apply for it, you know, but not just apply, apply, apply. Right. You know.

Andy Hibel 7:44
I can't agree with you more on that. Yeah. Applying for where you're qualified applicants. The case, I think do it for yourself. And I'd also say if you're tempted that you're so desperate that you want to work for that university under any circumstance, I get it. Take that energy and channel it in the right way.

Christopher Lee 8:03
Absolutely.

Andy Hibel 8:04
Have conversations with people. Try to understand better where you fit in and what might work for you. Just being a nuisance applicant. Your words, Chris, not mine, is not something that you want to be labeled as an. Hold on for a second. If you're not somebody who can perform the job, what happens if somehow they're like, okay, fine, you can take this job. Are you really prepared to take the job that you're a not really all that qualified for and you're not really going to be able to enjoy? That doesn't seem to make any sense to me. Like, why would you apply for that? Try to figure out what your place is there and being in a college town, I understand that pressure. You definitely, definitely people want to work for the university. I get it. Spend your time networking.

Christopher Lee 8:54
Yeah, Yeah.

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Christopher Lee 9:32
So two parts of my come back to that point about what to do when you want to do that I'll also say reapply after a period of time because you know if you had two years experience three years ago now you got five years experience or you know you've gained some new knowledge or skills or certification. When things change that makes sense to reapply for new opening or whatever the case may be. And even if it is a pooled position, those pool positions are usually as needed, right? You know, so if no opening comes, then they don't call people and then an opening might come later. But after a period of time they get, quote, stale, meaning that I applied, I didn't hear anything. And it was a year ago. So now I found another job. So organizations will then want to refresh that pool position. So reapplying after some period of time makes sense and is hard to know. Depends on the kind of position it is for how long you should wait, you know, for lower level positions more often in upper level positions. But it's just still a pattern that that if the question was on that full kind of position, then, you know, the rules about reapplying or the guidance around reapply is slightly different.

Andy Hibel 10:43
I have one ask too, when you before you reapply. First of all, whoever wrote this question, go ahead, pat yourself on the back, because I think the part I'm really impressed with the second part is if you're conscientious enough to think about I, after a period of time have not heard back from this position, I want to make sure. And you're tracking it. That's somebody I actually want to talk to. And I think if before you send that, you reach out to the department and say, listen, I applied for this position two years ago, I believe I probably need to reapply. I believe it's a pooled position. I believe whatever it is. But I want to understand better before I put my application in this time what might be a better way to frame my application or maybe maybe try to find the places where I can fill some holes that's going to make me a more attractive applicant. Reach out because I bet you that department might have some interest in actually sitting down with you for ten or 15 minutes and talking through, Hey, Andy, this this is what you could be doing better to present yourself. And I'll say this if that person would reach out to me in that sort of instance, I'd be pretty darn impressed that they're showing a conscientiousness towards applying for the position that probably would translate well to having them as a coworker.

Christopher Lee 11:56
Yeah, may I add two points to that. One is your friendly HR person. She or he can also be an asset for you. And then third, higheredjobs can be an asset for you. What i would do if i've applied for something and I'm, you know, not getting kind of the traction i want is to look at other job openings at other institutions for that kind of job. And inside of there is an education in and of itself on the kinds of things that job does, the kind of keywords people use, you know, the way they describe their work and that becomes then a task for you to say, do I live up to these standards? And if not, how can I shore up my background? But looking at other ads of the same position at other places informs you, because this institution may ask for these six things. These things you ask for these three, this one's for these four, and you want to look for the intersection of those kinds of things to say, okay, this is what they're looking for for this type job. And you can measure yourself against that. And if you don't measure up, that's a professional development opportunity. So contacting department contacting HR. Doing research and evaluating yourself. I think that'll put you in good stead.

Kelly Cherwin 13:03
I love that advice.

Andy Hibel 13:05
Thank you, chris. And thank you for listening. If you have a question for chris or one of our other experts, please email us at podcast@higheredjobs.com or direct message us on X @higheredcareers. We look forward to talking soon.