Andy 0:03
Welcome to the HigherEdJobs podcast, ask the expert edition. I'm Andy Hibel, the chief operating officer and one of the co-founders of HigherEdJobs.

Kelly 0:10
And I'm Kelly Cherwin in the Director of Editorial Strategy. Today we are happy to have our friend of the podcast back, back Kathleen Hermazanski. Kathleen serves as the associate vice president of human resources at Illinois Wesleyan University, and she is the CUPA HR Illinois president-elect. She brings over 15 years of experience in higher education including eight years focused on human resources. With the background in finance, Kathleen excels at aligning HR strategies with institutional goals while fostering a people-centered culture that supports faculty, staff, and student success. She is passionate about building inclusive work environments and leading initiatives that enhance employee engagement, and organizational effectiveness. Committed to continuous movement, leverages her expertise to navigate the unique challenges of higher education, HR, and contribute meaningfully to the university's mission. Kathleen, welcome back. Thank you for joining us today.

Kathleen 1:02
I am happy to return. Thank you, Andy and Kelly.

Andy 1:05
Great to see you.

Kelly 1:06
So, let's get into our question from our listener. So today's question is, how do I resign from my position and not share why I'm leaving or what I'm doing next? Kathleen, what your thoughts on this good question?

Kathleen 1:20
I think this is an excellent question, especially for higher education where I think as an industry we tend to overshare. We bring our authentic self to work and I think everybody's expectation is that when you resign, you just immediately say where you're going to go because people are excited or just kind of interested what your next steps are. So really, I think less is more. Some different options that I've used personally, including my most recent transition from my last institution to here. Illinois Wesleyan wasn't prepared to make an announcement when my past institution was. So I think the line that I actually use was I'm keeping things private right now, but I'm looking forward to the next chapter. So keeping it vague. Additionally, you could say something something I've decided right now. It's the time for change. I prefer to focus on wrapping up well here and staying in touch. So just high level kind of stopping the next natural question of where are you going next? Just kind of putting it as a nice full stop there. And just say maybe we'll have something that will be making an announcement either soon or check social media LinkedIn or anything else like that, but I just think a nice vague and kind of a stoppage at the end of that of I've just decided it's the right time for change.

Andy 2:31
I think that's wonderful advice. I think when I first read this question, you answered the question of why you can't do it. I can't really offer right now, not in a position I can offer and finding a way to say that I think professionally is important, but I want to know why you don't want to share something. If you know where you're going and there's not an obstacle, I think saying, "Hey, listen, I've loved working at a institution A, I've learned a lot, but I'm looking forward to a new opportunity and institution B where I feel like I can learn more." I've always learned in these transitions that the communities that we work in are very small communities. The relationships you have are very, very important. I think the oversharing part that I'm really judicious about is this isn't the point to bury your soul and say, "Oh my God, I can't believe I made it this long here because it sucks because of this." You can't do that, but the idea of just being able to share, express some gratitude, express some hope about where you're going and show that you're committed to a solid transition, you have to do it. There are circumstances, though, in Kathleen, you hit it out of the park with, "I can't say right now, but I think if you can't say right now, I think it is from a professionalism standpoint, something that you need to understand that these are relationships and what you're trying to do is respect those relationships. Irrespective of whether or not you feel like you've been respected. Try to treat people the way you want to be treated and you're not just doing it because it's the right thing to do. You're doing it because it's the sort of professional you want to be and demonstrate to others how they should be. Find your better angels here, be in tune with doing the right thing and taking the high ground. But there are points where you just have to pull back and yeah, get that.

Kathleen 4:22
I think to the point of why is somebody asking to not share what it is. What is the background information? For my personal experience, my new institution wasn't ready for that announcement because there was some restructuring that was going on. That was my reason for not sharing this because my new place wasn't ready for that announcement. As you shared, higher education is, while across all 50 states and internationally, it is a small community, especially when you get into like your faculty segments of science faculty and HR leaders and stuff across the country that news does spread pretty quickly. It could also be that potentially the faculty member is maybe resigning and is not wanting to explain where they're going. Maybe it's because they're changing disciplines or they're maybe moving into a staff role. And if the faculty member is leaving their discipline and moving over into a staff role, there can be some nuances that the faculty member may not want to share at that point. could be that they're maybe taking a year off, it could be a good situation that they've received some additional monetary income and don't need to work for a year. They're not ready to take a sabbatical. Maybe it's a staff member. And they just want a year off to reflect on their mental health and don't want to put pressure on that. You could also have this question if maybe it's an involuntary separation. if you're out in the community or public or on social media. And so you want to keep things more private, but Andy, to your point. You're correct. Relationships matter. And you want to make sure we're keeping the bridges built and making sure we're not burning them on our way out. And so when at all possible, when you can be, And can clearly articulate where you're going. That just maintained strong relationships, but every situation is going to be unique with ad hoc situations that we can try to be the vague answers.

Andy 6:08
And we talk about burning bridges. I always kind of feel like I try to remind people that you don't even want to litter on that bridge. This is a delicate part of the whole process. And just treat it with the reverence it deserves. These are people's lives. Your leaving is going to create an issue for the people who are staying. And for real consideration, please understand. If you worked there for five, five, seven years or longer. That's a really long tenure and long relationships. And I'm just going to point out like you just never know. And a good example would be early on in my career. I had a cup of coffee at an institution with a very, very small role. And then I got a much larger role at another institution, five hundred miles away. I had a wonderful exit conversation with the number two person in this team. And enjoyed it. And he was an advocate at the previous role. But six months after lending it to other organizations and the bigger role, guess who showed up as the number one person. It was him and wonderful person, wonderful advice over the years as a young professional. He offered me. And if I would have done anything to that bridge as I cross it, that would have really affected my career.

Kathleen 7:29
Absolutely. Without a shadow of a doubt, because you never know when you're going to reconnect with people. Even if it's not at the same small company or institution, they could be a sister institution in your conference or something like that that you're you want to make sure you're building those great relationships. And can I for the record officially request to use littering on that bridge that we're building because that was amazing.

Kelly 7:51
Well, I want to add on to what you guys are saying about the relationships. I completely agree that you have to make sure you're maintaining these relationships and and you know keeping this bridge litter free. And I can tell that the way this question is worded the person that submitted it is definitely being considered and wants to be thoughtful. I want to flip it to the other side of a person asking like, why are you leaving? Like they might be, you know, nosy, good or bad reasons. So I would like to suggest that people can respect that maybe someone doesn't want to share other information. And the person resigning shouldn't feel bad for just saying will share at a later date. So I feel like it goes both ways. So the person leaving has to leave with grace. But the person kind of accepting that they are leaving should also be considered of that person's privacy. I guess you could say.

Kathleen 8:44
And I would add that I think something as part of this like when you're resigning. I do think it's important to make sure we're still having notice. That you're giving notice. You're not just resigning and then that day or just a couple of days later, leaving the institution in order to keep the litter off the bridge and make sure that bridge is stabilized not the Francis Scott Key bridge or whatever that collapsed a few years or like a year ago. You're giving notice and I I know this is not the topic today, but two weeks notice is kind of becoming archaic in higher education. And we're kind of seeing like longer resignations for like faculty and more senior staff positions of like closer to a month. Any time you can give an employer more time while still being true to yourself and your future employer, I think really helps that relationship. If you're ever going to come across anybody you worked with again in the future, because you went above and beyond to make sure you cleaned up everything before you departed and make sure there was some kind of succession plan in place. Even if you're trying to be cage your private about the reason why you're leaving still be diligent to maintain all of the relationships with that, including being cognizant of your notice.

Andy 9:53
I feel like the economist and me needs to come out here though on that point and I do agree 100% that the longer resignation and transition period is becoming. more of the norm. And I think it's something that's important to offer. I wouldn't be insulted if they say, you know what, we want to stick to two weeks or actually in some instances, they might say, you know what, can you get your things at this point or our process is to ask you to leave, but of course we'll pay for two weeks or whatever it might be. That happens. But it also reminds folks that it's the principle of diminishing returns and marginal utility over time. That's the economist of me, but to put it simply, the third slice of pizza isn't as good as the first two. And you're ready to move on to the next course. So understand staying longer is good, but you're not going to be as productive. You've already decided to leave. It's hard to even stay in a role once you've decided you wanted to leave that role. Let alone have the other role set up and resigned and transitioning. It's a really hard place for for a professional to be and be the professional they want to be. So I would say if you're exceeding three or four weeks, you really need to give it some consideration, because once you can't remember, third slice of pizza, not as good as the first two.

Kathleen 11:15
Well, now that I'm hungry, because I want the first and second slice of pizza, that is a very good point, Andy. And I appreciate you making that. While your listener was asking how to privately resign from their employer without giving too much information, one thing I we talk about is when an employee resigns the employer asking the employee to stay quiet. That comes with its own issues, ramifications, mental health and stuff, because when somebody changes jobs, they're changing their life. This is a huge life decision, even though it could be quote unquote, just a job. So with that, and you're not able to announce it to your colleagues, to your friends and family, you know, publicly on your LinkedIn profile or other social media, that can create a hardship. And I will share it can potentially leave a negative impression between the employee, the separate employee from the employer, if they're asking to keep quiet. The employer should be transparent as to why we're asking to keep this under wraps for a little bit. Maybe they want to get some strategic plans in place, you know, interim plans. But if you to see that you weren't allowed to make an announcement before your last day, that's a red flag for me.

Andy 12:22
I think that's excellent advice.

Kelly 12:23
You probably approved the point of why you might be accepting another position someplace else.

Andy 12:28
It's definitely validating that why a search was necessary and why a change might be necessary. If there's additional requirements that are placed on you.

Kelly 12:36
Kathleen Andy, thank you so much for this conversation today. It was it was fantastic. We appreciate your insights, Kathleen.

Andy 12:43
Thank the two of you. This was a wonderful conversation. And whoever sent this question, I really hope it went well.

Kathleen 12:48
Me too.

Andy 12:49
I'd love to know follow up if you're out there listening. Let us know how it went.

Kathleen 12:53
And let me know what you said. So I might be able to change my advice in the future.

Andy 12:56
If you have any questions for us for Kathleen, any comments or thoughts or things we absolutely said that you disagree with. Or we'd love to hear if you agree with them. Please email us at podcast@higheredjobs.com or send a direct message on x @higheredcareers. And let us know what you thought. Thank you for listening and we look forward to talking again soon.