Andy Hibel 0:03
Welcome to the HigherEdJobs podcast. I'm Andy Hibel the chief operating officer and one of the co-founders of HigherEdJobs.

Kelly Cherwin 0:09
And I'm Kelly Cherwin, the director of editorial strategy. Today, we're happy to have Chris Lee back for our Ask the Experts series. Thanks, Chris, for joining us today.

Christopher Lee 0:18
My pleasure.

Kelly Cherwin 0:18
So I'm really excited about the theme of this question. So here it is. When you are offered a variety of days and times by a search committee for an interview. Which should I pick, the earliest day and time that works for me? Or should I try to aim for the last available time they offer? In other words, does my interview timing affect me being top of mind in the mix of candidates? Chris?

Christopher Lee 0:39
Yeah, this one's interesting one and this one involves a lot of folklore because I've heard people say many times, you know, you want to go first or you want to go last. I've heard a few people say you should go in the middle. But here is, you know, kind of my experience, and I will qualify by saying my experience. And and that's having talked to a lot of people, try to look at the research and look at the experience of others. We've even tracked this at places I've worked, to try to see if there's a pattern. The short answer is there's no discernable pattern. That evidence, or experience would say matters as far as which order that the candidate, him or herself can affect. So having said that, what seems to matter most is a couple three things. One is, you know, your background, how you perform in the interview, and then the others you're competing with. So I know it kind of bursts a lot of bubbles where I want to go first. Going first has some advantages because, you there is some research, not necessarily in the interview world, but in social psychology that says, things that are first or last are remembered more. Right. So it's kind of primacy, recency effect. But that doesn't mean that you're best. It just means you will remember it more. So, if the committee is prepared and trained, they take notes using a crisp rubric and then they make their decisions And their notes, remind them of what was good, you know, what was bad, what was indifferent. And so, if the search committee is doing its job, the order will matter less. Right? Here's what matters. And this is something that one cannot control. Which is, who else is in the pool? That's the factor. And how they perform. Right. So the analogy is if you first and you're your rising star and the people who follow you are veterans who are really, really good. Your experience, or relative few years of experience will be highlighted, Right. You know, versus if they interview much later in the process. And then the same goes, you know, we've talked about this before, about introverts and extroverts. Introverts present differently than extroverts on average. Right. And if you are an introvert and you come right after an ebullient extrovert, it highlights the fact that you're introvert, But if that same introvert is a little too ebullient, I think, you know, and too dynamic and they kind of overwhelm the committee, then your introversion looks refreshing. So the point is, there are a lot of factors, and it's hard for the interviewee to know them and control them. So the question is, what should they do? They should, then prepare themself effectively to control the things that they can control and worry less about the order. So that's kind of a summary of a lot of experience and how those things might have played out before.

Kelly Cherwin 3:48
You took the words out in the mouth. That's what I was thinking as you were saying that control what you can control.

Mike 3:53
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Kelly Cherwin 4:31
Like you said, we can't control who is the candidate pool. Sometimes we can't control exactly what time of the day. But you can be prepared.

Christopher Lee 4:38
Right.

Kelly Cherwin 4:38
You can be the best candidate and do you. So thank you, Chris. That's awesome.

Andy Hibel 4:42
Yeah. I've always felt like we should have a conversation of what's the better debate Cover letter or no cover letter, or interviewing first or interviewing last. Like there's not many big controversies we have in recruiting, but those, those are the two. So this, this is one of the classics. And I'm actually going to pull out old article from a good number of years ago that's titled "Is It Better to Interview First or Last" by Justin Zackal. And I found it interesting in that piece that "in an article in Psychological Science by researchers from the Wharton School and Harvard Business School, based on more than 9000 MBA interviews over ten years, the researchers determined that candidates interviewed earlier in the process received a more objective valuation and the process that they really kind of pointed to was called narrow bracketing. That once there's been a number of really good candidates, interview evaluators tended more to want to not give more good evaluations out and narrow the bracket a little bit. Interesting. Take it for what it's worth. But it kind of goes right back to, as the article goes on that it all depends on what's going to be put out there. It comes back to it depends. Because, if you go through a whole day of mediocre interviews and then yours pops At the end, you could just seal the deal right there. But if there's a lot of really good interviews, how do you differentiate through it? And I really like Chris talking about the introvert versus the extrovert. I think I've always come through with on the interview side, and I've said it before on the podcast, be an authentic version of yourself, because when you get the position, that's who you're going to be. You're not going to be your interview voice. You're going to be your own voice. And what you want to do in the interview. And this is from an objective standpoint, we're always worried, Am I tactically better or am I tactically worse where I am in the interview? And this is a part where I think you can really be interviewing them. What are they like after a bunch of good interviews? What are they like after a bunch of bad interviews? If you put your authentic voice out there and you get reflection back in it, to me, that's A. You know, you're connecting, but B, that's going to give you the real data that you need to truly evaluate the position beyond kind of all the specs you have on it. So I tend to encourage people to focus less. It's kind of it's all depends. But focus more on finding your right, authentic interview voice in that instance. Because I think that will inoculate you some based on what the pool is and how the deck is shuffled as far as the order of the interview is.

Christopher Lee 7:44
Yes, absolutely. Because, you know, even the interviewing last, some people think that recency effect. But if the interview group is tired, that may be a disadvantage. So there's just so many different dimensions and it's hard to kind of make a good call. And so therefore, why focus on that? Focus on spending your time on you and as you say, being the best version of yourself, being well prepared and researched, because, you know, if you're in a pool, with, you know, Coco Gauff or Serena Williams. And, you know, that's kind of a tough person to beat. But, you know, they don't win every time because they still have to perform. So if you think about how can you spend the time on you that's the way to think about it, because you can't upset them. Right. You know, regardless of how well, experience they are, if you do your part. Right. And do you the best way you can.

Kelly Cherwin 8:34
Thanks, Chris. Thanks, Andy, for this good conversation.

Andy 8:36
Thank you, Chris, and thank you for listening. If you have a question for Chris or one of our other experts, please email us at podcast@HigherEdJobs.com, or direct message us on X @HigherEdCareers. We look forward to talking soon.