Andy 0:05
Welcome to the HigherEdJobs Podcast, Ask the Expert Edition. I'm Andy Hibel, the chief operating officer and one of the co-founders of HigherEdJobs.

Kelly 0:13
And I'm Kelly Cherwin, the director of editorial strategy. Today we are happy to have our friend of the podcast back, Chris Lee. Chris is the author of numerous human resource-related articles, chapters, and four books, including "Performance Conversations: How to Use Questions to Coach Employees, Improve Productivity, and Boost Confidence Without Appraisals." He's also a leading authority on the search committee process and has trained over 1,000 HR professionals based upon his seminal work in the field and his second book on the topic, "Search Committees: A Comprehensive Guide to Successful Faculty, Staff, and Administrative Searches." He is a former question writer for the PHR and SPHR examinations administered by the Human Resources Certification Institute. Over his career, Chris served as the chief human resources officer for William & Mary, Bates College, and the Virginia Community College System. He is currently a managing director with Storbeck Search, and we're happy to say he's a regular contributor to HigherEdJobs. Thank you, Chris, for being back today.

Guest 1:11
My pleasure. It's good to be with you.

Andy 1:13
It's great to see you, Chris.

Kelly 1:15
Let's dive into our question from our audience member. The question is, "During interviews, I tend to become nervous, rely heavily on notes, and stumble over responses. What strategies can I use to manage interview anxiety and improve my performance?" Chris, what are your thoughts on this?

Chris 1:34
Well, I would say, mostly welcome to the club. Congratulations, you're human, because who wouldn't be nervous? And we all should be nervous because we all are kind of being judged. It's a high-stakes environment. It's really important. I think the first thing is maybe not to beat oneself up about the fact that you're going to be nervous. Knowing that gives one an opportunity to prepare well.

I think preparing well has two sides of the coin -- knowing you're going to be a little nervous and knowing that you have to prepare. The mental health part, you're going to start with that. Just the idea of knowing you're going to be nervous -- that it's high stakes and you're in the spotlight. Then you can do things, whatever works for you, to help manage your emotions and anxiety.

Some of us are a little more natural than others. Some need a little bit more time. Some people love to be in front of the camera. Some people love to be in high-pressure situations, and not everyone thrives in that environment. I think the forethought helps. The question comes from someone who said they’re nervous. It's a smart idea. Some people feel like you need to show up and speak extemporaneously. Having notes is a really smart preparation strategy that helps you manage your emotions.

We're going to direct people to some previous authors’ perspectives on that. We would encourage people after the podcast to take a look at those as well because some good thinking goes into that. Expect to be a little nervous and know that means you're alive and that you're smart. This is high stakes. Get ready to perform.

The analogy that one of the references talks about is professional basketball players shooting free throws all the time. It's just the same exact thing as your childhood. But every player has probably shot 100,000 free throws. But in a game, they're a whole lot harder.

It's like in your backyard, you just sink another shot, another shot, and then in front of other people it's like, "Okay, game's on the line and 10,000 people are watching." You're going to be nervous. The forethought is there. The preparation is there, and I think that puts you in good standing.

I think that's the first half of the coin. The second half of the coin is preparing. How should you prepare? There are many different ways. This particular post has four or five different references of other articles -- some that help you prepare, some that help you manage your emotions. And I think preparation helps.

To give you a context, I was on a panel recently with a couple other people, and one person who just successfully got a presidency indicated he spent 30 hours preparing for his presidential interview. The important thing is he got the job, but he spent 30 hours. Now, I think he understood intuitively that this is a competitive market. You have really talented people competing for that one job, and he put in the appropriate amount of time to be successful.

Now everybody, you know, probably is not going to spend 30 hours for one interview, but it's the idea that he thought that was necessary for him. He did the homework, researched the backstory. He talked about reading the past minutes of the board meetings because board members are going to serve on the search committee. So that's the idea -- understand your mental health and then do the appropriate preparation to make sure you're successful.

Kelly 5:41
Chris, thank you for that. I want to kind of piggyback on a few things you said. You started out at the beginning saying, you know, it's okay -- kind of give yourself a little bit of grace to know that being nervous is normal.

And this question says that they stumble over responses, and I don't know how you guys feel, but sometimes I think we are our own worst enemies. We judge ourselves so hard. Maybe we think we're stumbling over responses, but the search committee might not be judging us as much as we think.

So kind of back to, you know, just get out of your head and relax a little bit on the judgment part. And then the other thing I want to mention -- when you were talking about the basketball analogy, I was thinking the exact same thing because I remember my coach saying in high school, you have to visualize yourself making that free throw. So if you do it in practice, then you just visualize it in the game. Same thing here. I completely agree with going along with preparation, but part of that preparation is visualizing yourself being successful in your interview -- being calm and confident. The visualization part is so, so critical.

Andy 6:51
Well, the two of you have really done a good job of hitting just about everything, so I think I'm just going to echo a lot of the same themes that are there. I'm going to reverse the two sides of the coin that you put out there, Chris, and go with the preparation side first.

I couldn't agree with you more. The preparation is going to not only benefit you in the process but also help you deal with some of these anxiety issues. I'd also say, as an undergraduate in economics, don't forget about diminishing returns. I always worry that people judge their preparation by the amount of effort they put into it. But you need to right-size that. Thirty hours for a presidential position -- that's significant. But those are complex, detailed positions, and reading board minutes? I'd say that's required.

Not everybody's going to come at that position interview the same way. Understanding how governance works at a university for someone at an upper level is essential.

But going to the other side of the coin -- the first side you talked about -- I love the human-being side of this. And whoever wrote this question, I want you to understand: congratulations. You've acknowledged it. The power the anxiety has over you is diminished once you acknowledge the anxiety.

But let's also go to the next part about being human. You're human. Don't try to stop the anxiety. Don't try to prevent it. Don't try to find techniques to say, "I'm not going to be anxious."

At least for me, I don't want to lose the whole demographic who's out there. Absolutely, I still absolutely love you out there if you are a New York Yankees fan. But for me, to not be anxious is like saying, "Don't hate the New York Yankees." I just do. And I'd say, just like anxiety for a lot of baseball fans, hating the New York Yankees is just something that happens.

Chris 8:49
It's a part of it.

Andy 8:50
Do not try to stop it. Boy, if you have comments or questions or thoughts about me being a New York Yankees fan, please email them to Kelly directly.

Chris 9:01
This one.

Andy 9:01
And not to me. That said, I think this actually can be a huge plus in the interview. I think being your authentic self and putting your best self forward with great preparation is always the goal. That's all you can ask of yourself.

Chris 9:19
Yes.

Andy 9:20
And if you're able to show in an interview how, under a high-stakes situation, you control your anxiety, get it together, and present yourself well -- hey, if you have a moment where the anxiety hits you, say, "Let me just take a breath here. I'm a little nervous, but let me go on." You will absolutely be able to put yourself forward in a way that's relatable -- that's you.

And in the end, remember, they're not hiring the candidate who's presenting themselves here. They're hiring you. And they're going to know the real you at the end of the day. So just be you. You're wonderful.

Chris 10:01
You said it best. I do a lot of speaking and presenting, and I'm an introvert. I always judge myself based upon how much I was me, right? I know I'm not this dynamic, ebullient, funny speaker that some of these happy folks are. That's not me. I'm a content guy, right? So I feel good when I feel like I did the best that Chris can do, right? Because that's what you want to be -- you. You're absolutely right.

Now here's the interesting fact: committees don't hire the person who interviews best. They tend to hire the person who they think is best for the job, which is different. Because there are some people who are just smooth and natural and can rattle off things and make the right eye contact and the intonation is perfect or whatever. That doesn't mean that person is going to get hired.

So the interview performance is not just a performance but the display of who you are as a person. So you're absolutely right, Andy, because you can take some of that anxiety and channel it into passion.

Another technique I use is just to acknowledge that I'm nervous. I've even said a couple of times, especially when speaking, "Hey, this is going to be awkward." I gave a presentation earlier this year, and I had five of my former students in the audience. I was like, "This is going to be awkward because now my students are going to judge me. I hope I'm consistent with what I said." But just acknowledging it creates that authenticity you're speaking of.

So again, don't beat yourself up. Do your best, prepare hard, and then let that go.

Andy 11:52
Maybe as a follow-up to whoever wrote this question, we'd love to hear from you. Email us at podcast@HigherEdJobs.com
or send us a direct message on X @HigherEdCareers. We'd love to hear how you did and if you were able to incorporate some of those techniques into your interview.

Chris 12:12
Absolutely. And the blog post as well has some great resources in there and a couple of other tips.

Andy 12:17
As they always do. Chris, thank you so much for that.

Kelly 12:21
Thanks, Chris, for this conversation. It was a great one today.

Andy 12:24
And once again, thank you for listening. Send your comments, questions, and thoughts. Please send more questions -- Chris is always happy to answer them -- at podcast@HigherEdJobs.com
or send us a direct message on X @HigherEdCareers. Thanks, and we look forward to talking to you again.