Andy Hibel 0:04
Welcome to the HigherEdJobs podcast, Ask the Expert Edition. I'm Andy Hibel, the chief operating officer and one of the co-founders of HigherEdJobs.

Kelly Cherwin 0:12
And I'm Kelly Cherwin, the director of editorial strategy. Today we're here with expert Matt Trainum, who's the vice president, Networks and Strategic Partnerships at the Council of Independent Colleges. Welcome, Matt.

Matt Trainum 0:24
Kelly and Andy, wonderful to see you both.

Andy Hibel 0:26
Thanks again for having me. Nice to see you again, Matt.

Kelly Cherwin 0:28
Let's get into our question from our listener. The question for today is how many institutions can I be an adjunct at, At the same time, I've seen adjuncting at two institutions has become pretty common. Is adjuncting at three institutions tolerated in the industry? Matt, What are your thoughts on adjuncting and the number and institutions?

Matt Trainum 0:47
You know, I like to be a little bit philosophical. I probably have less philosophy here, but I will say I'll start by asking, what's the goal here? So is the goal more income? Is the goal more experience? Is the goal more exposure that might lead to a full time position? I really like this idea of anchoring and what's the goal? Because the different goal might lead to a different answer. So with that said, the goal is probably not to deal with more bureaucracy.

Kelly Cherwin 1:19
Yeah,

Matt Trainum 1:19
And every additional institution you're adding, you're adding a level of complexity to the work, a level of standards, a level of faculty manuals that you have to understand a level of what goes in the syllabus that's required that you've got to figure out. So generally, I think it makes sense to try to obviously consolidate your adjuncting as much to one institution as possible. That said, my guess is this person tried that and it did not work. And so now they're at two and maybe three campuses. And the answer that I have for that is a really simple answer. You're a free agent. You are a freelancer. Both of those terms have the word free in common. You are free to do whatever you are wanting to do to accomplish the goals that you have. And I don't think that there is a lack of tolerance around that. So has a free agent, has a freelancer, someone trying to make sure that they're meeting their income expectations, that they're getting the experiences they want? I support them doing, and I don't think there's any I have never heard in the conversations. I've been in negative attributes given to someone who's at multiple institutions.

Kelly Cherwin 2:23
I'm with you. I haven't heard any, you know, negative feedback regarding, you know, being at multiple institutions either. I guess my advice and I do agree with the free agent aspect, but do what's best for you in terms of obviously, you know, fulfilling your goals, but then your mental health as well. If you're spreading yourself so thin and you're not able to perform or be the best you could be, if you're not, you know, able to truly teach as best as you could and you're the overall quality is going down. But I would keep that in in mind as well because yeah you could be adjunct at five institutions but if you're really not able to truly give your whole heart to the institution and your students and take care of yourself at the same time, I think that's something that people need to consider.

Andy Hibel 3:12
I think for lack of a better description, this is higher ed's as an answer to gig based work And one of the benefits of gig based work is it's it's your gig. You do it how you want to do it. And I would say if you are working for five different places, I'm pretty sure all five of those places aren't going to be the same experience for you. Look at numbers three, four and five and say, Maybe if I can get more work from the top two places, maybe I should work for a couple places. Use that knowledge that you have if you are working for more than one place about what it is you like and how you like to work and then seek those opportunities out. I think the idea of being a free agent, that's the essence of gig based work and it also allows you to do work in the way you want to do it could vary in compensation or whatever it might be. That just seems like that's that's one of the benefits of, working as an adjunct. If I, if I can say that like I know I'm sensitive to some of the challenges of being an adjunct, but that that gig based part of it is something that use that to your advantage if that's what you're doing.

Matt Trainum 4:25
And what I hear from you with that is that I loved all of that. What I hear is tolerated. Yeah, tolerated. And, Kelly, to your point, good idea. Maybe. Maybe. Right. So worth some reflection on whether it's a good idea or not. And I'll go back to just where we started this answer with, which is what are you trying to do? So if you're if your goal is to do five different classes and use that adjunct resource and money from there, great. your goal is a long term placement, that still might also be a good idea that. But then to Andy's point, which place do you like the best? And then how do you start moving more to get more that one institution looking at a long term possible placement. So love this reflection. Thank you. All

Kelly Cherwin 5:06
I do an acknowledge, though, that there are a lot of people listening that are in the adjunct world that and I'm speaking from experience I've adjunct at multiple institutions, picking up another class and saying, Hey, the top one and two, I want to teach more there. It's not always an option. So I don't want

Matt Trainum 5:21
right.

Kelly Cherwin 5:21
to simplify

Andy Hibel 5:22
No,

Kelly Cherwin 5:22
things. And

Andy Hibel 5:23
no.

Kelly Cherwin 5:23
we understand to our listeners that it's not that easy. So you definitely have to do what's what's right for you. And I understand that it's not always, know, like, just like, hey, I want to pick up another class. So

Mike Walker 5:36
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Kelly Cherwin 6:14
back to your your point of the goal. In my situation, I was doing it for, you know, professional development for extra income. But I know that a lot of people are not in that situation. So I really want to be sensitive to, you know, the listeners that do need those five classes. And it's not just saying, I can do all five at one institution. So

Andy Hibel 6:33
And I definitely want to to walk that back and say, listen, I'm not at all insensitive to that. And I definitely understand that if what you're looking for is a full time permanent role and out of necessity, not by choice, you're doing this. That's a it's a very different situation. And yeah, we we really try hard at higheredjobs to make sure that we're sensitive to that. And there's better ways that we can do that. Please do email us at podcast@higheredjobs. com, or find us an X and send us a message @higheredcareers, we we do want to hear and we do we do take those suggestions seriously.

Kelly Cherwin 7:12
Can I give a little teaser though for those interested in kind of some more adjuncting news? We have a podcast coming up soon on some institutions that are doing a really good job in in treating their adjuncts well and they receive the Delphi award. So I'm really excited about that conversation. So there's a lot of institutions out there that are are definitely, taking care of their adjuncts. Well, so thank you, Matt, for joining us today and your insights on this. The the questions here. So we look forward to having you back next time.

Matt Trainum 7:40
Thank you. All.

Andy Hibel 7:41
Thanks, Matt, and thank you for listening to the podcast today. We look forward to talking with you soon.